Author Topic: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9  (Read 1685 times)

ErikHolmes

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Okay, I think this chapter is done.

I originally intended to go a bit farther with this chapter, but this seemed like a good place to stop it. Let me know what you think though. I was going to end the chapter with them beginning their search for Ellie, but I haven't really decided yet. So, this is either all of Chapter Nine, or the first two-thirds.

Looking forward to your comments!
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Chaos

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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2009, 01:47:58 AM »
I always love the Kail chapters; his narration continues to be my favorite part of your writing. All I can say about this chapter: "Man, Ellie isn't going to be happy." :P

I could be being paranoid, but it feels like the Kail/Kajsa thing has moved a bit too fast. Now, I quite liked it, because I had a long pause after Chapter 8 to let it sink in, but in a real novel I worry it could feel too fast. An Ellie chapter in between might alleviate the issue--not that it's a big problem. Like I said, I'm probably just being paranoid.

I bought the Kail/Kajsa thing. You wrote that part effectively, which made it seem believable enough for my tastes. On the other hand, the action seems just a bit broken. [Side note: this could be why Chapter 8 was really good: it had minimal action in it.] I don't think you quite have the hang of battle scenes yet. They aren't bad, but they aren't particularly great, either.

You also lost me a little bit on the magic front. Maybe it is because we don't understand Trolls enough yet, but I don't fully understand how Kail "took her magic away". This is almost assuredly something you will elaborate upon in a later chapter, I just thought I'd mention it, because it didn't make as much sense as the magic elements you introduced last chapter.

Still, I continue enjoying Kail and Kajsa's interactions. Keep it up :D
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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2009, 02:56:31 AM »
Good chapter- as far as it goes.  If you're going to end it here, there should probably be more of a finality to the last sentence.  As it stands, it feels more like a section break.  But if you're going to do a section break, I would suggest picking up with Ellie's viewpoint instead of staying with Kail/Kajsa (thanks for the pronunciation guide, btw. ;D).  Just a suggestion, though!

About Kail/Kajsa... eh, I don't know.  It feels... fast.  Like, Captain Kirk fast.  I get that he's young and impulsive and all, and she's apparently inexperienced and used to thinking badly of herself, but still- I almost expect her to die in the next chapter.  Everything else I bought.  And, in itself, it's not a deal-breaker; just something to think about. 

As for everything else, I actually followed the action better than in your first chapter.  Thank you for finally making Kail notice the correlation between cold and magic. ::)  The hints at his origins are intriguing... as with his mother.

Overall, enjoyable, but... feels unfinished.
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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 01:19:56 AM »
 I think that overall this was a pretty good chapter.

I'm really enjoying learning more about everything, and the revelation that Kajsa was a troll was awesome, and the fight scene was fairly well done, I enjoyed it more than your previous ones. I especially loved the line at the end of it,
Quote
“Kajsa, you’re strong as hell, but I guess I was just lucky—”
She frowned at me, “Lucky! Strong as hell?” She stepped close to me, glaring. “There are few creatures of hell that can match strength with Kajsa, Rå of the Mountain Dovre.”
I can see her just glaring at him while saying this.

One thing that threw me off alittle though was the numerable new and foreign words regarding her that you introduce in this chapter. 
Quote
Huldrefolk!, Huldra, Jotunn, A Troll from The Mountain, Rå of the Mountain Dovre,
  all describe her, and obviously huldrefolk and huldra have the same meaning, basically a troll, but I'm not sure if Jotunn is a tribe or a synonom, and as I'm typing this I realize it's not as confusing as I thought, but on the 1st read I felt overwhelmed by all the words. But I trust that you will explain them in due time.

I also thought that the romantic aspect between them has gone VERY fast. I don't think many people would teleport worlds, be healed from serious injuries by a random person who just rescused him, be attacked physically and by magic by that same person, who is a Troll, and then make love with them. The reader can see it coming, but it feels like their relationship is highly underdeveloped for the amount of intimacy they have. But then again sometimes things happen, and I know you're develop them along the way, so its okay, but I would have liked a little more attraction/romantic inclinations towards each other earlier.

Other than that, I still love your tone and your choice of phrases, like
Quote
“sometimes, Trolls just cry.”
The magic and Kale's own special strengths are very well done, the mysterious aura around them work quite well, leaving me wanting more detail and explanation every time one or the other is mentioned.

Great job Erik!

P.S I definitely think you should end it here, it works well

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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 07:31:54 AM »
This is really good work.  You are changing my mind about the first three chapters.  In light of where you are going they are better than I felt first go.  However, you might tighten them, and maybe do some merging on your rewrite.


I have to agree with both Ham and Kris.  The interplay leading to the fight seemed a little artificial the promise to not attack him is a little too easily won, and it's a bit fast.  On the other hand the lonely needy troll and the reversal when we discover her species is pretty dramtic.  I thinks tha keds theez deyz iz sayin Aw-sum! ;P

Seems to me you can fix the speedy issue just by getting inside Kajsa's head a little and exploring what the violent emotions she's going through might look like.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I picked up is that:
1) she's very desperate for offspring and the all the dashing, scaly troll-things think Kajsa looks too ugly (read that as beautiful.
2) trolls don't pair-bond/marry having a more animal nature
3) that last thing she EVER expected from this demigod was kindness or the fulfillment of her needs in #1

Given that you need to punch up the dramatic tension.  She needs to escalate the violence a bit quicker when he crosses her ward andresist more verbally if not physically when he demands hospitality. 

He needs to be a bit more bullheaded and even a little violent at her suggestion that he's not human.  He accepts it too easily.  Denial and violence demonstations go hand in hand.  It would make more sense if that part of the discussion happened after they um mate the first time.

Also I think it's odd that this kid is so willing to act on his impulses.   It may be cliche' but it makes more sense that he'd steal the kiss while they were locked in a clinch, because the adrenaline of combat is more likely to help him over come his inhibitions.  She promised not to attack him, but if he attacked her to stop her accusing hims mommy of being some bad old god thing. . .

A couple of lines were pretty poignant:
"Kajsa also had a tail, I discovered."
'“Nothing,” she told me, “sometimes, Trolls just cry.”'

That second one made me want to say, "Hmmm, so now we know for sure you ARE married."  But I resisted so no one would throw things at me. ;P

Good work Erik. 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 10:03:13 PM by Renoard »
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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 07:08:36 PM »
"but I think she was like our Rangers or Delta Force"

this line brings the author out of the book to join the reader. I would change it to remove the word "our". A simple first person mistake. That's why I don't try to write it - it is tough!

Goos story. Try as I might to skim, I am forced to read and enjoy it!

Agree with others speed on of relationship and titles.

Keep it coming.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

ErikHolmes

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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 11:20:39 PM »
I could be being paranoid, but it feels like the Kail/Kajsa thing has moved a bit too fast. Now, I quite liked it, because I had a long pause after Chapter 8 to let it sink in, but in a real novel I worry it could feel too fast. An Ellie chapter in between might alleviate the issue--not that it's a big problem. Like I said, I'm probably just being paranoid.

That was my biggest worry about the chapter. I'm working on the Ellie Chapter right now, I think that maybe it should go in-between chapter 8 and 9, but I'll wait until its done to decide.

In fact, I even brought this up at the Conduit Con during the "Turn the Page, to Turn me on" panel. I was concerned if a romantic type element could work in my story where the two hook up at the start, not at the end, like in most stories. Kind of my idea for the relationship will be: Okay, they are together now, but can they make it work. Rather than: When will they hook up.

You also lost me a little bit on the magic front. Maybe it is because we don't understand Trolls enough yet, but I don't fully understand how Kail "took her magic away". This is almost assuredly something you will elaborate upon in a later chapter, I just thought I'd mention it, because it didn't make as much sense as the magic elements you introduced last chapter.

Yes, I'll be sure to elaborate on that in future chapters, in fact, its one of the main plot arcs of the book. I'm actually glad that you feel that way :D (Although I'm hoping that you are saying that as in, "you lost me and I want to read more to find out what it is," and not just, "you lost me, it sucked."

About Kail/Kajsa... eh, I don't know.  It feels... fast.  Like, Captain Kirk fast.  I get that he's young and impulsive and all, and she's apparently inexperienced and used to thinking badly of herself, but still- I almost expect her to die in the next chapter.  Everything else I bought.  And, in itself, it's not a deal-breaker; just something to think about.

 I love that line. "Captain Kirk Fast." Mind if I use it in my book LOL. But I promise that she's not the one night stand that he has to avenge, when she is killed in a few chapters. :D

One thing that threw me off alittle though was the numerable new and foreign words regarding her that you introduce in this chapter. 
Quote
Huldrefolk!, Huldra, Jotunn, A Troll from The Mountain, Rå of the Mountain Dovre,
  all describe her, and obviously huldrefolk and huldra have the same meaning, basically a troll, but I'm not sure if Jotunn is a tribe or a synonom, and as I'm typing this I realize it's not as confusing as I thought, but on the 1st read I felt overwhelmed by all the words. But I trust that you will explain them in due time.

Thanks, I might need to cut down on a few of them, etc. But basically you guessed them, a Huldra is a type of Troll in Scandinavia. A Jotunn is another word for Troll or Giant, which you mostly see used in Norse mythology (they are the 'Giants' that Thor is always killing). And Rå is just a title, which I stole from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A5

I also thought that the romantic aspect between them has gone VERY fast. I don't think many people would teleport worlds, be healed from serious injuries by a random person who just rescused him, be attacked physically and by magic by that same person, who is a Troll, and then make love with them. The reader can see it coming, but it feels like their relationship is highly underdeveloped for the amount of intimacy they have. But then again sometimes things happen, and I know you're develop them along the way, so its okay, but I would have liked a little more attraction/romantic inclinations towards each other earlier.

LOL, that's kind of what I was going for, "Sometimes things happen." Also, just to clarify, all Kail did was kiss her, SHE led him into the back room  ;)

This is really good work.  You are changing my mind about the first three chapters.  In light of where you are going they are better than I felt first go.  However, you might tighten them, and maybe do some merging on your rewrite.

Thanks! I like to think my writing has improved, even just over the past few weeks, so I'm sure I'll give those first chapters a good overhaul in the next draft.

I have to agree with both Ham and Kris.  The interplay leading to the fight seemed a little artificial the promise to not attack him is a little too easily won, and it's a bit fast.  On the other hand the lonely needy troll and the reversal when we discover her species is pretty dramtic.  I thinks tha keds theez deyz iz sayin Aw-sum! ;P

I thought about rewriting it a little to give Kail more of a reason for leaving the room, like needing to go outside, etc. What I was trying to convey was that Kail just took a few steps outside the room, and what he did terrorfied Kajsa.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I picked up is that:
1) she's very desperate for offspring and the all the dashing, scaly troll-things think Kajsa looks too ugly (read that as beautiful.
2) trolls don't pair-bond/marry having a more animal nature
3) that last thing she EVER expected from this demigod was kindness or the fulfillment of her needs in #1

Pretty close, I don't want to give away too much, but basically Kajsa just wanted companionship, she's been alone for a long time. You are also really close on the marrying thing, later, she'll call him her mate. The big thing with Kail is that he's sort of met these unrealistic expectations that shes had (more on that in later chapters). Him beating her in the fight really sealed the deal for her.

A couple of lines were pretty poignant:
"Kajsa also had a tail, I discovered."
'“Nothing,” she told me, “sometimes, Trolls just cry.”'

That second one made me want to say, "Hmmm, so now we know for sure you ARE married."  But I resisted so no one would throw things at me. ;P

Poignant is good, right?  :D

LOL, has every man heard those words in their first year of marriage   ;D

"but I think she was like our Rangers or Delta Force"

this line brings the author out of the book to join the reader. I would change it to remove the word "our". A simple first person mistake. That's why I don't try to write it - it is tough!

Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to word that right. Obviously when he says, "our" he is talking about America's. I kind of picture Kail telling this story to someone after it's over and done with. What should I use instead of our?

Thanks for all of the awesome feedback guys!

BTW, sorry that I haven't gotten to your submission yet, but I will before Monday. This week has been both busy and sucked. (My tire blowing on the freeway the other day is just one example).
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swaindaddy

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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 01:05:08 AM »
Sorry about the tire!

I would just take out our and replace it with the. The reader will generally attribute his POV to America and thus know he speaking about their forces.
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Chaos

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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 06:45:07 AM »
You also lost me a little bit on the magic front. Maybe it is because we don't understand Trolls enough yet, but I don't fully understand how Kail "took her magic away". This is almost assuredly something you will elaborate upon in a later chapter, I just thought I'd mention it, because it didn't make as much sense as the magic elements you introduced last chapter.

Yes, I'll be sure to elaborate on that in future chapters, in fact, its one of the main plot arcs of the book. I'm actually glad that you feel that way :D (Although I'm hoping that you are saying that as in, "you lost me and I want to read more to find out what it is," and not just, "you lost me, it sucked."

It was very confusing, actually. Though I am very biased because I don't really like non-human races much. I do, however, want to know more. You just really need to sell me on Kajsa being awesome.

I have to agree with both Ham and Kris.  The interplay leading to the fight seemed a little artificial the promise to not attack him is a little too easily won, and it's a bit fast.  On the other hand the lonely needy troll and the reversal when we discover her species is pretty dramtic.  I thinks tha keds theez deyz iz sayin Aw-sum! ;P

I thought about rewriting it a little to give Kail more of a reason for leaving the room, like needing to go outside, etc. What I was trying to convey was that Kail just took a few steps outside the room, and what he did terrorfied Kajsa.

"Terrorfied" is not a word, Erik :P
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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 11:00:29 PM »
Within a pagraph of starting chapter nine, I've noticed that Kail has for some reason dropped all the contractions in his thoughts. He's never been this formal before.

"I’d figured out that it was cold because it must have been enchanted..." Awkward sentence here. I think it's just the "I figured out" bit that's making it jar.

"My entire leg turned to ice as my foot touched the ground..." For some reason, at first glance, I thought you meant this literally.

"Then she was on me, leaping forward—clearing about fifteen feet—" I thought this meant height at first, though maybe that's just be. Either way I didn't realize that ail and Kasja were still that far apart.

"I landed in a heap near the fireplace, bruised and bleeding." I think you could get away with this in third person, maybe, but not so much in first. With a first-person narrator I don't expect to be told that the narrator landed in a heap; I expect to feel the impact as he goes crashing into the ground.

I think the writing's slipping just a bit in this chapter. You have a lot of sentences with this construction: "I started to," "I began to", etcetera,and it's nothing too huge especially for a first draft, but the extra verbiage is starting to get a little distracting.

"She never stopped kissing me as we made love." Really? doesn't she need to come up for air? :P

Still not ao thought from Kail about those men he killed. And I can see him getting, ah, distracted from finding Ellie, but it tweaks me a bit that he doesn't even think about her after the point when Kasja tells him to go find his pretty girl.

Chaos commented that he didn't fully understand how Kail "took her magic away". I don't have a problem with that; I don't think we're supposed to understand that right now. There are obviously things that either Kail doesn't know about himself, or that Kasja has wrong about him. Either way, she's not trying to inform Kail here; she's upset and going off at the mouth and probably wrapped up more in her own thoughts than she is explaining things to this stupid intruder who's come along and screwed everything up. :P

I have to agree with Raven, the last bit didn't really feel like a chapter break. In fact, I'd sooner use the end of the first scene in this chapter, ("She kept on kissing me and dawn came and went") as the end of the chapter and put the following scene in a new chapter. An Ellie scene in between would probably be a good idea; I feel like we've been getting a lot of Kail lately. (And I say new chapter rather than new scene because I would be leery about switching POVs too often in first person.)

People are commenting that the Kail/Kasja thing went too fast for them. I can sort of see their concern, but I didn't really feel that way. For me, the interactions between the two of them here have almost nothing to do with romance, and a lot more to do with need and desire. Kasja lives alone, is used to thinking of herself as unattractive, and what's more is frightened and intruiged by this dude who's just come stumbling unwanted into her life; Kail is, theoretically, freaked right the heck out by everything that's happened lately, and you certainly don't need to know a person well before you can feel any sexual tension.

That said, most of this is extrapolation on my part; if this is what you were intending you can certainly emphasize this aspect of it more. That might help address the concern that others have mentioned.

Renoard makes some good points--again, Kail is a little too accepting of Kasja's statement that he's not human. He doesn't necessarily have to react violently, though given wyhat happens in this chapter I could certainly see him doing that, but even if he just tells himself she's lying, or misinformed, and determines to forget about it, that's something. Right now he just seems to swallow it.

Also, Renoard gets ten points for his comment on marriage. Awesome. :P

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Re: June 01 2009 - ErikHolmes - The Sword of Worlds - Chapter 9
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2009, 04:52:49 AM »
Thoughts While Reading:
Quote
I couldn’t believe her strength. It seemed like I was struggling against a three hundred pound linebacker, not a girl, who barely weighed a buck-twenty.
How does he know how much she weighs?

Overall Impression:
Chapter goes pretty quickly, but again a lot of the back and forth between Kail and Kajsa seems unnecessarily long and repetitive without Kajsa actually revealing anything that did much more than confuse me at this point. Other than that I don't have a lot to say about this chapter. Not a lot stuck out, either good or bad, though I would be interested in learning a bit more about your version of trolls.

Personal note: In 'hook up' situations, especially with modern characters, I lose a lot of respect/interest in a character even when it is done "tastefully." Kail's situation with Ellie doesn't help. In a new author and this early in the book, it would have been a deal breaker because I would assume it would be all downhill from here. Since this is in a writing group, I will keep reading, but I will not be very helpful in editing those scenes because of my tendency to skim.
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