In Defense of D20

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

This is true. I'm just pointing out that it's extra work, not that it's an unacceptable amount of work. Heck, if you want to make it easy, just say "PHB 3.5" No other classes or feats. Or just have the players propose what they want, and then youc an (dis)approve it. There's hardly a need to make a whole list ahead of time.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

and the extra work is ok with some systems, BESM by the very nature of the Anime it tries to emulate means that some outrageous stuff fits just like Feng Shui, keep in mind that there is a difference between power creep and munchkinizing... its subtle but very real. A munchkin can take advantage of power creep, but power creep affects everyone. Many games now focus on taking out the power creep or making combat realistic and very deadly for players Unknown Armies, Sword and Sorcery, Harn and others. I dont think Power creep is as bad a problem as it has been for Palladiums Rifts, but It is an annoyance that combined with the buying a new core book ever couple of years makes D20 less desireable for me. Oddly I dont hate D20, I really liked Human Heads stuff for it (Redhurst) and Kenzer has a really nice set of books for it too (Kalamar) I just dont think it would be my game of games...

I have a question though, at the store yesterday I saw that Mongoose is publishing OGL rpgs and not D20. Whats the difference?
It seemed that they included the player info, in both OGL Ancients and Horror. It looks like you dont even need a single Wizards of the Coast book to play if this is the case are they still really D20?

Oh I almost forgot, I agree with Erics assertion that d20 mods poorly for sci-fi games... but disagree with it not working for horror games. Horror I think is just a very hard to pull of genre. Your either good at making your players squeel "mommy take me home away from all this" or you arn't.

[Spriggan]

OGL is Wizards core "Open Game Lincence" that D20 is based off of.  If you make a D20 game you are not allowed to include anything that is in the core DnD rules while OGL requires you to make a different character generation process and a few other things.  Also any D20 game that basicaly changes the rules or modfies certain things are suppose to be OGL and not D20.  An expample of an OGL game is Connan.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

So you dont need any WOTC stuff to play it?

[Spriggan]

No you don't.  The reason why less people make OGL games over d20 is that you have to publish more and design a character creation proscess as well as modify the other areas, also another example is most OGL do not use "challenge rateing" systems that wizards made, that system is for use under the d20 lincence and not the OGL one.  And includeing it with out permission will bring wizards lawyers down upon you.  So you cannot make a game OGL then say you need to own the D&D core rules just like you cannot make a game d20 and reprint ceratain things.


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome  on the top left are links for both OGL and D20 info.
What the exact differences are printed at wizards website and while d20 is a "complete" game system OGL is a more loose system allowing for more customization.  

Hope that helps, it's kinda confuseing even after reading the different lincences.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Mutants and Masterminds is another OGL system. COMPLETELY different char gen. new combat system and progression as well. The only things remaining really are saving throws and how skills work. Also, there are things called "feats" but you don't earn them the same way.

[Spriggan]

ya I think the only things that are the same with OGL are stats, levels (the exp is the same I beleave), bonuses and skills (or how they work) and some basic combat principals.  Also when useing OGL you're supposed to allow your new rules to be free use as long as the users follow what guide lines you set for they're use (like Wizards D20 rules).  This dosen't fall into the realm of settings ect (unless you allow it in your guidelines for your OGL game).

So we could make TW(i)G an OGL game and would have to requre the core rules to be avalible with out the setting info for others to use, as well as guidelines for use etc...

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Fell and I have decided that we will probably provide d20 stats for our creatures/characters, but that the system we create will be something else. So you could either use the TW(i)G system or play the setting d20. At least, that's where we stood last time we talked about it.

[Spriggan]

Ug reading all that lawerish talk gave me a head ache and I'm still just about as confused as before.  Though I did get a kick out of the FAQ explaning why Wizards made the OGL.

The main thing I was trying to find out is what OGL games require the D20 lincence and what don't.  No realy specific answers there.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Urgh... confusing... But OGL ancients looks cool.

[Eagle Prince]

I think the Monte Cook book is Arcana Unearthed. The original book (for 1st edition) was done by TSR and called Unearthed Arcana. I've been very curious about Cook's variants. It's good to hear it recommended. Maybe now I'll spend a few bones on it.

I think you are mistaken on what I am talking about.  It is called Unearthed Arcana, by Wizards Of The Coast, made for 3e rules.  Its got a black cover with a girl casting a spell, and the spellbook pages are blowing around sorta.

I've only glanced through Arcana Unearthed, it looks kind of cool but I don't own it so I can't really say for sure.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

looks like I need TWO books then