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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Peter Ahlstrom on January 26, 2006, 07:20:51 PM

Title: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on January 26, 2006, 07:20:51 PM
old thread here (http://www.timewastersguide.com/boards/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=brandon;action=display;num=1114642234;start=225)

I was checking numbers for the Kingdom Hearts manga today, when I decided to ask about Elantris... You had a great Christmas!

Title Report: Bestseller & Sales History
Author:SANDERSON BRANDON Title:ELANTRIS Publisher:ST MARTINS TR/HOLTZBRINCK Format: Hardcover
Week Ending Week # Weekly Sales YTD Sales
4/24/2005 16 43 43
5/1/2005 17 424 467
5/8/2005 18 454 921
5/15/2005 19 413 1334
5/22/2005 20 407 1741
5/29/2005 21 288 2029
6/5/2005 22 297 2326
6/12/2005 23 234 2560
6/19/2005 24 236 2796
6/26/2005 25 217 3013
7/3/2005 26 198 3211
7/10/2005 27 128 3339
7/17/2005 28 151 3490
7/24/2005 29 114 3604
7/31/2005 30 129 3733
8/7/2005 31 122 3855
8/14/2005 32 115 3970
8/21/2005 33 111 4081
8/28/2005 34 82 4163
9/4/2005 35 90 4253
9/11/2005 36 80 4333
9/18/2005 37 62 4395
9/25/2005 38 64 4459
10/2/2005 39 42 4501
10/9/2005 40 49 4550
10/16/2005 41 33 4583
10/23/2005 42 45 4628
10/30/2005 43 51 4679
11/6/2005 44 31 4710
11/13/2005 45 41 4751
11/20/2005 46 25 4776
11/27/2005 47 102 4878
12/4/2005 48 53 4931
12/11/2005 49 62 4993
12/18/2005 50 65 5058
12/25/2005 51 113 5171
1/1/2006 52 48 5219
Week Ending Week # Weekly Sales YTD Sales
1/8/2006 1 31 31
1/15/2006 2 37 68
1/22/2006 3 42 110
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on January 28, 2006, 05:07:31 AM
Wow!  Thanks, Ookla.  Looks like we're still hanging on.  I expected sales to be almost nil by now, but they're not bad at all.  
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on January 28, 2006, 05:56:14 PM
Yeah, only dipped below the Nov. 6 number on one week since then...I'd say that's very good news.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 08, 2006, 03:24:28 PM
New numbers. Wow!

Title Report: Bestseller & Sales History
Author:SANDERSON BRANDON Title:ELANTRIS Format: Hardcover
Week Ending Week # Weekly Sales YTD Sales
1/29/2006 4 32 142
2/5/2006 5 44 186
2/12/2006 6 23 209
2/19/2006 7 20 229
2/26/2006 8 27 256
3/5/2006 9 13 269
3/12/2006 10 22 291
3/19/2006 11 29 320
3/26/2006 12 24 344
4/2/2006 13 13 357
4/9/2006 14 19 376
4/16/2006 15 15 391
4/23/2006 16 13 404
4/30/2006 17 13 417
5/7/2006 18 16 433
5/14/2006 19 31 464
5/21/2006 20 17 481
5/28/2006 21 11 492
6/4/2006 22 5 497
6/11/200623 3 500
6/18/200624 15 515 5734
Format: MM Paperback
Week Ending Week # Weekly Sales YTD Sales Fantasy Ranking
5/28/2006 21 77 77 0
6/4/2006 22 918 995 33
6/11/200623 1082 2077
6/18/200624 982 3059
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Fellfrosch on June 08, 2006, 06:47:31 PM
Holy cow. That's some nice paperback sales you got there, mister.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on June 08, 2006, 06:51:59 PM
I know none of us are very jealous of these numbers.




Drawl!
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on June 08, 2006, 07:02:16 PM
Almost a thousand paperbacks in one week?  Am I reading that right?  If so I want my cut.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Lanternpost on June 09, 2006, 06:42:37 PM
Ookla, didn't you mention previous that Nielsen Bookscan is normally seventy percent accurate?  I noticed that according to their list, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince sold 7.02 million copies but according to Wikipedia at 13.5 million which could be trash if not for the fact that NB reported it sold 4.1 million first day when it sold 6.9 million.

Point:  Hardcover Elantris might have sold ten, eleven thousand copies?  ???

Paperback sales are incredible right now.  Who knows.  Mistborn 2, an NYT bestseller?  I guess we'll have to wait and see.  And help.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on June 09, 2006, 07:20:39 PM
Ya, we all know about the margin of error for the book scan list.  It was debated in the original thread Ookla linked too.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on June 10, 2006, 11:23:16 PM
Ookla,

Hey, thanks!  

You seem impressed by the numbers.  Are they good?  I emailed Joshua with them, but I don't know if this is impressive or not, honestly.  I sold over twice as many as I did in hardback, but that isn't really that impressive, since Tor printed around four times as many of the paperback as they did the hardback.  
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: stacer on June 11, 2006, 04:10:10 AM
Paperback sales are usually supposed to be more than hardcover, especially now with the depressed hardcover market. People would just rather pay less for a book, unless they're really really into the author/book and want to have a book that will last a while.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 11, 2006, 07:03:12 PM
I'm impressed. Maybe I shouldn't be, but then the books I usually work on don't have a hardback version that have been available already for a long time. That many copies sold for a manga would put it in the top 20 (compare that to #33 here), which is pretty good. (We're not getting many series in the top 20 recently... Viz has been spanking us for the last 10 months or so.)
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2006, 05:17:37 PM
Joshua's response:

Brandon:  If I'd had to guess based on my bookstore research, I was probably
going to say the first week would have been around 1000 copies.  We all want
to have books blowing out in even bigger quantity, but considering how well the
hardcover did, I do think this is a decent first week # for the paperback,
especially if (as my research suggests it should) the numbers hold steady here
for another week or two.  The important thing with the hardcover wasn't the
400+ copies sold the first week, but the 400+ sold the third.  I'd like to see
week #3 for the paperback somewhere over 750.

-----
One thing he didn't note is the Bookscan 70% mark, which means we sold more around 1400 than a thousand.  Plus, isn't bookscan from Sunday-Saturday?  If so, and the book was released on Tuesday, this was really only a five day span.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: stacer on June 14, 2006, 05:23:22 PM
In general, yes, Bookscan is about 70%. But I've seen numbers from some small presses that Bookscan actually only hits about 20% of their numbers, so that number can vary widely.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2006, 09:42:28 PM
Stacer,

My understanding was that the 70% number was to compensate for the independents, which they can't gather very well.  I figured that they got 100 or 90% on BN and Borders, then much less on the others, which figures out to be 70% overall.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: stacer on June 15, 2006, 01:55:00 AM
Yeah, that's my understanding, too. I'm just saying that it *can* vary widely, so take any Bookscan numbers with a grain of salt. If Tor does a frontlist sales report each month, I'd rely on those numbers before Booklist, is all.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 23, 2006, 12:55:45 PM
numbers updated.

[EDIT: Yeah. :) ]
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 23, 2006, 01:07:15 PM
I assume the second "6/11" is actually supposed to be 6/18
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on June 23, 2006, 05:14:31 PM
Ah, now that's what we wanted to see!

Thanks, Ookla.  
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: stacer on June 23, 2006, 06:42:10 PM
I'm confused. Where are they updated? I only see numbers through Jan. of this year.

EDIT: Nevermnd, I found them.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on June 24, 2006, 12:04:18 AM
After vacation I'll stick the hardback numbers in the first post and the paperback numbers in the other post.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on July 06, 2006, 08:10:19 PM
Well, crap, y'all. With our transition from CDS to HarperCollins for distribution, our Bookscan access got cut off. So for the time being, I can't get the numbers for you anymore. I should be able to get them again in a couple months, but probably not until sometime AFTER Mistborn comes out!
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Shrain on July 06, 2006, 10:32:42 PM
ahhh, criminitley!!  :(
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Lanternpost on July 06, 2006, 11:45:47 PM
My question would be whether or not TOR ever provides books sales, even to author.  Every year, or more often.  Would anyone know?  That way, all would be official.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on July 08, 2006, 08:37:50 PM
Tor keeps track more of the number shipped then sold, but they do inform authors at the time when they pay out royalties.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: demented_yam on July 27, 2006, 06:22:57 AM
Quote
Tor keeps track more of the number shipped then sold, but they do inform authors at the time when they pay out royalties.


is that the number shipped and sold to the dealers, or the number shipped to the dealers and sold to the fans?
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on July 27, 2006, 06:55:22 AM
Sold to fans.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on July 27, 2006, 04:20:31 PM
Actually, no.  They track what is shipped to the distributors only.  They don't know what happens to the books after that--whether they're all going to bookstores, whether they're being bought, or whether they're sitting somewhere lost.  

So, Tor doesn't know how many books were sold to anyone.  They just know that they sent XXXcopies to Baker and Taylor, XXX copies to Ingram, XXX copies to Borders Distribution, and XXX copies to B&N distribution.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on July 27, 2006, 04:42:39 PM
yes but when they pay you they subtract what's been returned to TOR so techincally they have a close idea what's actually been sold.  So in otherwords they keep track of what they shipped (as I said) but they pay you for what was actually sold (or not returned as I said, more or less the same thing).
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on July 30, 2006, 03:33:38 AM
Ah, then yes, you are right, Sprig.

The trick is, they don't generally get returns and the like until about a year after the book comes out.  So, I STILL don't know how the ELANTRIS hardback really did.  I'll know in November.  
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Lanternpost on July 31, 2006, 01:24:17 AM
Thanks, everybody.  All cleared up.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on August 18, 2006, 07:31:26 PM
Just got some sales numbers.  (My agent bought Bookscan finally.)

MISTBORN sold about 800 copies in its first week.  However, since then it has tapered off significantly, and is now actually selling less per week than ELANTRIS was.  Totals, however, still put it at about 200 copies more than ELANTRIS than at this point.  

The ELANTRIS paperback is holding very strong, selling about 500 copies a week.  The ELANTRIS hardback still sells around 20-30 copies a week.  

We'll know more in the next few months, obviously.  This looks okay.  Of course we'd rather have stronger numbers, but if we can end up selling about 10% more than ELANTRIS in the long run, I'll be happy, considering that this book is more expensive.  Still, if there's anyone you can persuade to buy the hardback, it would be very much appreciated....  
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 18, 2006, 09:46:02 PM
Bookscan is expensive!

Elantris paperback is selling 500 per week? So it's sold around 7,000 by now?

I wonder how much difference for Elantris the Publishers Weekly review and the B&N pick of the week placement made.

It seemed to me that Elantris had a better scattering of cover quotes. The glowing Card review had not to hurt as well.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on August 18, 2006, 09:55:56 PM
7,800 on the pb so far, Ookla.  Unmodified bookscan, so it's probably a great deal higher.  

Yes, all of those are good points about ELANTRIS.  However, I have a feeling that not many of them mattered that much.  We like to pretend that all of those things are really important, but the truth is that:
1)  Pretty much everyone ignores PW, particularly consumers.  
2)  I'd be surprised if BN.com sold more than 50 copies of ELANTRIS in hardback.  They're a tiny, tiny market.

The Card quote, however, was probably a very big seller.  
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 18, 2006, 11:34:47 PM
Being in the book business myself--though not on the "business" end of it, per se--I've been trying to figure out the big question--what causes books to sell? I really have no idea what effect TOKYOPOP advertising has on TOKYOPOP books, and there have been all sorts of things we've been trying up to and including making the TOKYOPOP website a sort of myspace for manga. In the end, I have a feeling that past a certain very low awareness point, it's just word of mouth.

There's a certain title we've got where both volumes that are out got starred reviews on PW (the head editor loves it), but they've sold like crap. The main problem is that the main market for it really doesn't read manga or comics. The author himself is very, very good at identifying people on the street who will like his book and going up to them and selling it to them. He has personally sold more copies that way than any one store.

Anyway, if it ends up that Elantris sells better than Mistborn, does that mean it's a better book? I think for raw entertainment value alone Mistborn beats Elantris, but is there something else people are looking for?
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on August 18, 2006, 11:45:54 PM
I think the fact Elantris was a stand a lone book from a first time author had a lot to do with it, there were a lot of people talking about that fact on the book blogs and forums.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: stacer on August 19, 2006, 12:04:29 AM
Ookla, you've also got librarians, teachers, and other gatekeepers in growing numbers starting to recognize the value of manga, so I think that's probably part of it, though I'm sure most of it is word of mouth through the readers themselves. That's an advantage that books written for the below-18 crowd have, though--if a book is well-reviewed, librarians and booksellers pay more attention, and are therefore more likely to read it themselves and handsell it. I'm sure for manga it's different than other children's books, but that's the buzz I'm hearing about manga from librarians.

I think reviews make a bit of a difference in the adult market in a similar way, but not nearly to the magnitude that they do in the children's/YA market, because in that market, the parents (usually controlling the money, up to a certain age at least) listen to the recommendations of the other gatekeepers a little more.

Advertising usually makes no impact whatsoever--reviews and word of mouth, radio and other interviews, and especially TV publicity like Oprah's picks or an author appearance on the Today Show are more likely to be influential than advertising. I think the reason is that with books, people want to know more about the story--either the story within the book, or the story of the author.

Since few books get put on NPR and Oprah, though, most authors have to settle for trying to get the word out via blogs, publisher-sponsored PR, appearances, signings, readings, etc.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Bookstore Guy on August 19, 2006, 12:25:00 AM
1.  You also have to factor in the people who sell the book.  I sell just as much (and in many cases more) Brandon Sanderson novels than i do many other "popular-bestselling" authors.  If booksellers make an effort, it is actually very easy to get a person to buy a book.

2.  Some bookstores dont get the books to sell because the main suppliers dont send it out.  We didnt get any copies other than the ones we ordered directly from Tor.  

3.  Some stores don't actively look for new authors and new novels - why?  laziness - im am dead serious (B&N is the perfect example with Borders a close second).

4.  He's still a new author.  I know we all love his books, and no one that bought mistborn from me has complained AT ALL.  But, lets face it, many authors dont become big sellers until they either luck out, write something controversial or trashy, or have a large series that people look at and go, "Holy crap look at all these books!"  I had this exact conversation with EUOL the other day.  The more books he gets out the better the ALL will sell.

Those are my observations on the selling side of the book business.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Peter Ahlstrom on August 19, 2006, 05:17:28 AM
Hmm. Distribution didn't send you any books? Does that mean Borders/Waldenbooks didn't get some copies for all their stores?

Scholastic should push Alcatraz hard, and if that does well, I wonder how it will affect the sales of Brandon's other books.

How much has Brandon gotten involved in other popular sites? I mean, I know his posting of Warbreaker was mentioned on boingboing, and I saw a couple interviews he did a few places...well, I guess he's making an effort. :)

Ah well...there's a lot that time will tell. Brandon doesn't have to be super-ultra-successful for a few years yet. Just successful enough that he keeps getting new book contracts. :)
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: Spriggan on August 19, 2006, 04:01:27 PM
You'll find him poping up on some book forums every once and a while, though there hasn't been as much forum activity for Mistborn as there was for elantris, but there are a lot more blog posts about the book.
Title: Re: Sales Numbers
Post by: EUOL on August 20, 2006, 07:17:08 PM
Here's what sells books (from what I've heard):  Word of mouth.

Somebody has to recommend it.  Either a bookseller or a friend.  

The other thing that has an effect is packaging--meaning how good it looks on the shelf, the cover quotes, and--very important--how many copes/books that author has on the shelf.  Steve is right.  People can ignore a single book or a couple of them. When an author starts to get a big stack, however, people think "Wow.  That's somebody I'd better read."

As for the sales numbers, remember--MISTBORN is outselling ELANTRIS.  By only about 15%, but still, sales are good.  I think the reason the last few weeks have been below was because the first few weeks were so good.  The better an author becomes known, the more his sales become front loaded.  Joshua says that his really big authors sell with a bang their first few weeks, then almost disappear.