Author Topic: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer  (Read 5208 times)

Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2004, 11:37:57 AM »
the gaming equivalent to Cartman from South Park you mean... I dont like to play with that kind of guy, and wont gm for them friends or no friends, we'll play xbox or settlers if they get that way. A whole group full of them might be ok (Safety in numbers), but Ive noticed that Rules Lawyers usually dont understand that they're ruining everyone else's fun. Ive found in just about every game asking the person to consider everyones feelings, and to understand that its a game, helps immensely.
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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2004, 12:06:44 PM »
*shrug* that's not the option for everyone, though.

I don't know about Cartman from Southpark, I think I've seen bits and pieces, maybe one complete episode., sow hile I know who Carman is, that comparison means little.

But now that you mention it, what rules lawyers often need is a good game of the Totally Insane Card Game.

Or perhaps a round of Magic. MtG thrives off that stuff.

Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2004, 12:14:11 PM »
or a rolled up newspaper... bad ruleslawyer... bad bad!!!
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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2004, 01:05:45 PM »
I don't play with Cartmans, just a lot of Kennys.
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Eagle Prince

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2004, 02:07:07 PM »
Come on, I've only died twice over four campaigns.

Also, if you are ever serious about making a new charatcer to replace Mercio, I thought of a really cool magic item we could turn him into.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2004, 02:10:22 PM by Eagle_Prince »
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Prometheus

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2004, 02:42:12 PM »
It's not just how many times you've *actually* died. We're also counting the frequency that you almost kick it, Eagle Prince.  :)

Turning Mercio into a magic item? I run that campaign, and I don't know anything about this. Disturbing....
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Eagle Prince

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2004, 03:20:46 PM »
Okay, imagine a shrunken head with permanent speak with dead. ;D  And of course you've never heard about it, I only thought it up like monday night.
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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2004, 04:18:25 PM »
So you're just waiting for Mercio to finish Loremaster before you make him into an undead oracle. Not a bad idea, though considering the target you'll likely end up with an illusion of an undead oracle instead.

We're getting pretty off-topic though.
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2004, 04:26:20 PM »
The anti-lawyer gm in me wants to make sure that corpse rots.

Eagle Prince

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2004, 09:46:56 PM »
We have ways to prevent that.

I'm not sure about liking bad rules, that just ruins the game.  I like fighters, but I could do without some of the 3.0 dnd rules that were in their favor.  It doesn't take long to get sick of a two-fisted vorpal weaponmaster literally great cleave his way through armies of titans.
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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2004, 09:07:36 AM »
then control the magic he gets. The thing is, I *like* fighters in 3rd ed. Seriously, in 1st or 2nd, why the heck would you make a fighter? The ONLY reason is because your gm had a strict rolling mechanism and you couldn't get stats for anything else. Paladins and Rangers (and later Cavaliers) had all the same abilities plus some. the experience they needed wasn't that much more either.

Eagle Prince

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2004, 03:31:20 AM »
Sorry, it would be more like magic items, feats, spells, and PrCs... or you could just use the 3.5 rules and not screw over everyone who wants to play a fighter.
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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2004, 07:20:12 PM »
As some of you know I do a lot of GMing in our group, but I have also been called a rules lawyer from time to time as I have a unique ability to recall many of the games rules verbatim without having to look them up.  Over the years I have spent gaming I have found that as a GM this has been a great advantage as it allows for realtively quick decisions to keep the game flowing.

However, I must admit that I have encountered several individuals over the years in various groups that all they do is min-max, and the only enjoyment they get out of the game is creating the unbeatable character who can do everything better than everyone else.  On "several" occassions, both as a GM and a Player, I have witnessed and participated in the debates that this thread addresses; as the rules lawyer, the GM, a player agreeing with a rules lawyer, and a player agreeing with the GM.  Out of all of these encounters I have learned that listening to all of the interpretations of the rules and then coming up with a compromise is the best.  

As a GM I have found that if there is a conflict between players that could totally alter the characters based upon a decision that I make, I try to find what I think is the correct interpretation of the rules, then, if need be to maintain game balance, offer some sort of limitation to bring the game back into balance, a humorous "pop-eye syndrome" or "random die" role etc.

In my opinion, however, the worst thing to do is to ignore the situation.  That usually just leads to a pouty player and a lousy gaming session.
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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2004, 04:38:07 PM »
Quote
...I have a unique ability to recall many of the games rules verbatim without having to look them up

Only in his dreams. I will admit Nicadymus knows the rules fairly well, but we have many times caught him in the act of trying to pull the wool over our eyes, and back to the book we go. We all reread the rules, find that our interpretation of it was wrong, and adjust. To call Nicadymus a rules lawyer would be a fallacy even though he would enjoy it. Nicadymus enjoys the rules, but has been known to bend them when it suites the campaign for smooth game play or when he is trying to torment us. If ever a rule in question becomes a dispute, we go to the book hash it out as logically as we can, and then he will make the final ruling as a GM. End of story. Our group has seen a fair share of rule lawyers in the past, and they do decrease the “fun” of the game when they bicker with the GM, and so the rest of the group torments that player until he catches on that we are here for fun and not for the rules.
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: article: Out Lawyering the Rules Lawyer
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2004, 04:56:00 PM »
hear, hear... course it reminds me a little of A Few Good Men.

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