November 30 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God Chapter 2

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Yeah, um, it's short . . . and with an over bearing attempt at being cute.

[Recovering_Cynic]

I don't think I got this...

[Andrew the Great]

Ok, thoughts while reading (copied exactly):

How old is Anaiah now? She comes across right at first as a very young girl, but she talks like an older teenager at the youngest. No kid says, "because I'm so adorable"

Do women in this book ever wear anything other than gowns or, as Frog so aptly put it, "Chainmail Bikinis?"

What exactly are the Three? Now granted, I don't think I've read all of your stuff, but still, I'm quite confused.

Everyone's skirts have scales? That's different. What kind of animals live in this desert, anyway?

Parts of this seem like very tribal culture, but the relationships between the characters are very modern, not really tribal at all. IE, traditional father-daughter relationship in a tribe isn't "Sweetey (not exactly tribal word) I love you,"

So I've got a "Xena: Warrior Princess" type picture of all the women we've seen so far. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Sixteen seasons....so she's four? She can't be four. If she is, she's scary smart. Well, you said earlier that four seasons was less than two years, so that means that the oldest she can be is eight. Which is still kind of disturbing. She doesn't talk like a kid. Is this supposed to be sixteen years? That seems more reasonable.

I still can't place Anaiah's age. Now she's talking like an eight year-old maybe up to about twelve (this is just after people are throwing rocks at her)

Our wife? These people are polygimists? And apparently the woman in question had divine blood too?

The second section is awfully short, and it really doesn't add that much. We already know everything except when they're talking about their wife. If that's important, ok, but otherwise, I say cut it.

The trainer says, "We girls can't have the boys being better than us." Is that normal for this society? I'm kind of confused as to the gender attitudes in this society. Sometimes it comes across as male dominant, sometimes female dominant, and sometimes as a sort of weird competition.

If Anaiah's thighs are burning, she's not going to hold the stance regardless of whether she wants to or not. Have you ever tried to do squats with thighs that don't want to? Furthermore, why is she swinging a weapon from that stance anyway? Granted, the mental picture I'm getting is absolutely hilarious, but it doesn't work for warrior training.

I still can't visualize a choot, even with the descriptions.

Overall, this section is pretty good. I can definitely see how it contributes to the story more than I could last time. I'm interested to see how the conflict develops with the other children from the village thinking she's a witch and/or what Anaiah will do when she figures it out.

Anaiah is very inconsistent in this chapter as far as how she acts age-wise. I'm also having trouble figuring out exactly what type of society this is, or what kind of things they believe.

I'm interested to see more, but ditch the attempts to be cute. It works better that way. Besides, based on the tone of the other stuff so far, I'd say the people who are going to be reading this aren't going to be the people who will appreciate it anyway. 

EDIT: Here, just for kicks and giggles, this is a quick paint file I did of the lovely mental image I was getting of this whole training session.
 


You can probably see why I found it funny.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Sixteen seasons....so she's four? She can't be four. If she is, she's scary smart. Well, you said earlier that four seasons was less than two years, so that means that the oldest she can be is eight. Which is still kind of disturbing. She doesn't talk like a kid. Is this supposed to be sixteen years? That seems more reasonable.

There are only two seasons in this world (mentioned in earlier rewrite of earlier stuff you have NOT been given to read).  Sixteen seasons is eight years old.

Our wife? These people are polygimists? And apparently the woman in question had divine blood too?

The Word you're looking for is polyandry.  That's multiple husbands.

If Anaiah's thighs are burning, she's not going to hold the stance regardless of whether she wants to or not. Have you ever tried to do squats with thighs that don't want to? Furthermore, why is she swinging a weapon from that stance anyway? Granted, the mental picture I'm getting is absolutely hilarious, but it doesn't work for warrior training.

My Shotokan black belt test required me to stand in a "horse riding stance" for an hour (no, that's not an exaggeration).   Horse stances like this, squatting whatever, is one of the most important stances to learn in any martial art (even those that don't use it).  It teaches you to ground your self, teaches you hip control, and most importantly, almost every stance in combat will in some way transition through this stance.  That's what stances really are, they are the transitions fighters move in as they fight.  The reasons stances are practiced individually is the same as why ballet dancers practice their plies.  Ultimately everything moves between those positions and you don't want to make yourself vulnerable any longer then you have to.  As a side (which I will be getting into later in the story) the lower ones hips are, the more actual strength you have to fight with.

Do women in this book ever wear anything other than gowns or, as Frog so aptly put it, "Chainmail Bikinis?"

Pre Islam Africa:  Many women went topless . . . all the time.  Celtic warriors:  Women who fought, fought naked.  In the texts that have been presented, most of it has been dealing with warriors or gladiators, or such like that.  And, if you haven't noticed, even all the men go topless, with skirts.  If you haven't read anything in it with Lady Maz, she's a bit more modestly dressed.

[Andrew the Great]

Ok. That makes sense. Still, I think it's funny to visualize all these people squatting as they train.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Yes, it really is that funny.  One of the things I have learned from these workshoping sessions is how alien my world is.  It's what I appreciate the most about the critiques.  Helping me figure out how to order the chapters.

[Recovering_Cynic]

Um... like I said, I don't think I got copied on this submission somehow...  Could you send it to me again?

[LongTimeUnderdog]

I've sent it to you three times, dude.  What's your normal EMail?  I'll try that?

[Recovering_Cynic]

Hmm... try sending it to cynic[at]readingexcuses.com

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Sure, here's the second attempt at that address.

[Recovering_Cynic]

And this morning I wake to find two copies in my email box...  You have to love technology, neh?

[Recovering_Cynic]

Alright, so from reading this chapter, I found quite a list of things to critique:

1) I agree with Andrew: I have no idea how old your MC is from this chapter.  We don't know enough about your world to know how long 16 seasons is (if I were you, I'd just say she's 8 years old.  Worst case scenario, your reader will forgive you.  Best case scenario, your reader will thank you.  I would.)  Then throughout the piece she acts at times like an adult, at times like she's five, and at times anywhere in between.  Also, if she's 8, why does her dad make her put on a shirt? 

2) Related to 1), the time jump from your last chapter is unclear.  Since it's hard to judge your MC's age, we don't really know how much time has elapsed.

3) Showing vs. Telling.  There were occasions when you tell us what your MC knew or thought.  For example, you tell us that she "knew" her dad's sandals went up to his knees.  Just say that he wore sandals wrapped around his legs, the wrapping going up to his knees, the top disappearing under his skirt.  On a related note, I still have no clue what any of your weapons look like.  From your descriptions, I have an odd mental picture of axe-like things or sickle-like things with bones pointing out in odd places.

4) You switch PoV from you MC's dad to your MC with no warning.  This happens right after she wakes him up and then leaves the tent while he gets dressed.

5) The scene where your MC gets pelted by rocks really confused me for several reasons.  First, why are they attacking her now?  Surely they have seen her before.  If they haven't, then you need to make it absolutely clear that her dad *never* let her go into the village.  Given that it is a village (therefore not participating in village life or being seen is *really* hard to do), this seems unlikely.  This leads me to my second reason for confusion: why are they attacking her now?  They must have known she was part of the village, or known of her.  Also, she is in the company of a protective adult.  Most bullies are willing to attack a kid when they are alone, but when there is an adult present, they tend to lay off.  Also, most village cultures respect their elders, making the attack less likely in the presence of an adult who is unlikely to approve.  Last thing about this scene: even 8 year olds understand mockery and other kids being mean.  When a child is attacked or hurt, they generally assume it was on purpose.  I really think your MC would realize they were calling her a witch.  She might be confused about this, but I think it would be hard to miss.  Plus, when she's being pelted by rocks, I find it hard to believe she would be freaked out about witches.

6) Give us some more description of the village.  What kind of huts do they live in?  Do they cook out doors?  Are there stone paths?  I want to see this place.

7) I was also unclear about the scene where the dad presents the MC to the chief.  Is he holding her the whole time she bows and greets the chief?  If so, why?  Why didn't he just set her down?

Your MC seems to talk back to her trainer a bit more than I'd respect.  Generally, warrior training also hinges on respect.  The trainer doesn't need to be a hateful character, but I wouldn't think she'd take any talking back.

Hope I helped.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Thank you Cynic.  As always, very helpful.

On a related note, I still have no clue what any of your weapons look like.  From your descriptions, I have an odd mental picture of axe-like things or sickle-like things with bones pointing out in odd places.

Yeah, that's exactly what a tagwar looks like.  Since you have the correct image already, I'm curious what's so difficult to understand about the descriptions?

Not to be rude, but if you want more showing, less telling, exactly how should I do that with said Tagwar and choot?

Your MC seems to talk back to her trainer a bit more than I'd respect.  Generally, warrior training also hinges on respect.  The trainer doesn't need to be a hateful character, but I wouldn't think she'd take any talking back.

An interesting perspective on education children in war.  And again, not to be rude, but I'm curious how much warrior training you've had, honestly.  the reason I ask is to determine whether this perspective comes from fantasy/fiction staples, or personal experience (to better judge how to turn this horrible story into a decent one).

[Recovering_Cynic]

I think the reason I am still having trouble seeing your weapons is that they have not been related to anything I've ever seen in real life.  Say that they are ax-like, or staff-like, but with bone spikes, or an axe-like blade with two prongs, etc.  I don't think the majority of your readers are going to be familiar with bone weapons, so they need to know what the bones look like, and if the bones are weapons shaped, the best way to do so would be to let us know what weapons they are shaped like. 

Well, I must confess I do not have much experience educating children in war.  I do, however, have experience in educating children, and one of the things I've found is that letting a child talk back is the first step to letting the child run over you.  Of course, if you want them to continue enjoying what you are teaching them, you have to make it somewhat enjoyable/fun, but at the same time, you have to maintain their respect or they don't listen or do as they are told.

[vegetathalas]

Andrew: I smell book cover!

Coming in with my review late, as per usual...

There are a couple of moments in the Cara/Ana conversation that seem to slide out of viewpoint, ie, "She turned her lips to a soft pout, certain that would soften her father's heart" sounds like something Ana's POV would say. But Ana wouldn't think of herself as "a little girl."

I'm not sure what this chapter will add in the long run if the plot occurs in her adolescence. Unless it's important, you might move it to flashback status. Or at least cut it to the training part. All it is is setting info.

I agree Ana's cuteness seems a little forced.

How big is this village that going across it seems like a big deal to an eight year old? I was picturing like two dozen tents.

My feminism frowns a little at the "demanding woman" part and wonders what you're trying to convey with it. Obviously, it's part of the culture, so I'll let it roll.

I wonder how Ana's hair gets bunched up. Usually, if I slide something over my head, my hair flattens, it doesn't bunch. I'd think it would get tangled on the rivets, though.

Are all the villages in the crater?

What's a murt?

Maybe a bit much clothing description. I've never been particularly interested in clothes or armor, so it touches on the boring side for me.

Hmm, the women's culture seems very Maidens of the Spear. Which always seemed stupid to me. No one fights like mama bear protecting her cubs.

The story of Margesal and the Darken could use more description, since we haven't seen Darken's description and the name is new.

Choot? I'm not sure if you've explained this word or not.

Poor bachelors don't get to make pies. I'm confused why it's pie in particular. Why not roast bulou?

Unless this is the first time ever entering the village, not knowing that the 'witch' they were referring to was her seems kind of odd. Surely she's heard the slur from children before, seen toddlers run and point at her skin, etc. And her father comes up with the "scared of bigger/stronger" lie awfully quickly. If she's never been in the village before, I think she'd be surprised by the people more, not just the bazaar. And the children and villagers would gawk and run in fear, not throw stones.

Clamber = climb, clamor = noise

So women are chiefs, but men rule the homes when they have women in them... Am I getting this straight? I'm surprised chiefship didn't pass to a sister or niece along matriarchal bloodlines. Given a small population, I'm sure the interbreeding would make someone available.

I like the tagwars. With so much bone and leather, I wonder if 'blacksmith' is the right name for Cara's occupation.

I feel like the conflict in the first part of this chapter could be heightened. Other than the kids with the stones, there's not much of it. Why has the chief accepted Ana so easily? Yeah, she's cute, but I feel like there should still be some stiffness that needs thawing.

A lot of the chief's/Cara's conversation seems unnecessary, the boys will all be begging to marry her, etc.

"To Amoz, however, her hands were huge." -- this sentence doesn't make much sense to me. Unless he's insulting her hands? Or is it a viewpoint change?

"a shorter woman then most practicing in the fields with larger endowments stood by." -- the way you have this worded, the fields have the endowments.

Nifty-sounding tattoos.

I'm not a big fan of "wanna" and "gotta" when I'm reading. Modern slang breaks up the flow for me.

I took taekwando so I got the horse stance immediately. Two sleeps = two days? That's an awfully long time to hold a stance.

Oh, now the choot sounds different. I wonder why you'd have a ball on the end instead of a point.

The trainer speech sounds a little stereotypical drill sergeant-ee

Is Amoz the only other person in class? Where are the children who threw rocks earlier?