Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: EUOL on March 01, 2006, 07:26:25 AM
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Well, it's out. Here's the official list of editors who've gotten a copy of the book via Joshua:
A/Tor/Feder/2-15-06
1/Firebird/November/2-24-06
2/S&S Aladdin/Schutz/2-24-06
3/Harcourt/Tibbot/2-24-06
4/HarperCollins/Dudman/2-24-06
5/Little Brown/Sorkin/2-24-06
6/Houghton/O'Sullivan/2-24-06
7/Hyperion/Bray/2-24-06
8/Knopf/Frey/2-24-06
9/Candlewick/Bicknell/2-24-06
10/Scholastic/Rissi/2-27-06
Ah, the joys of having an agent and being able to do mass simultaneous submissions! Moshe has an 'A' instead of a number because we sent him the book a week earlier than the others to give him a head start.
So, children's book people, how'd old Joshua do? Is this a good list, you think?
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Those are some good houses (well, pretty much almost all the houses, minus one very important one in the Seattle area, of course). Let me know how it goes.
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If you get published by Harper I'm going to ooze jealousy.
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Is the Bray at Hyperion Libba Bray? I know that she's married to Barry Goldblatt, but I can't remember if I heard that she's an editor somewhere, too.
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Update:
So far, six of the publishers above have said they want to make an offer, and one has already made an offer. We'll know better by next week, but things look very good.
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I think it would be funny if you got picked up scholastic.
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Wow, you may get a bidding war for this.
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Lets hope so, it would be fun to see what comes out of one.
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Well, it would never be anywhere near what one might expect of a bidding war in adult books, but it certainly will go above average if more than one house wants it.
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I'm hoping they'll adding things like new cars for his brother and other imporant things.
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Oh, of course. That's the way it should always be.
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Wow. Congrats. And good luck!
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Bid! Bid! Bid! Congrats. Can't wait to see the outcome. :D
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I bid $1.
Now the bidding war is getting intense.
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I bid two dollars and some homemade mandu. Of course, if you accept my bid, it might be awhile before I start my own publishing company and get the book out.
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And of course the brothers start one-upping each other. Man, I'm glad I don't have a brother.
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And of course the brothers start one-upping each other. Man, I'm glad I don't have a brother anymore.
Yeah, whatever happened to him anyway? Wasn't he deported?
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Second offer on ALCATRAZ has arrived, and it's from Stacer's old haunt. Houghton. They upped Tor by about 50%.
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Wowzers. Let the bidding begin, then?
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Second offer on ALCATRAZ has arrived, and it's from Stacer's old haunt. Houghton. They upped Tor by about 50%.
I'm not surprised by that. They have the school empire behind them (we made the money, they had the attitude) and can really do some great things with children's fantasy that I don't see coming out of Tor. Was it submitted to Candlewick?
EDIT: Ah, I checked, and I see it went to Liz Bicknell at Candlewick. That's the house you want, truly. They'll make your book beautiful inside and out, and they've had a lot of award winners in the last 5 years or so.
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Second offer on ALCATRAZ has arrived, and it's from Stacer's old haunt. Houghton. They upped Tor by about 50%.
How does it compare to...your previous Tor contracts? :)
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I doubt for one book alone it'd be as much, but if they're buying a series, it might be quite substantial.
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Ookla,
The original Tor offer was the same as their offer for ELANTRIS (per book.) The Houghton offer is 50% more, per book, than that. However, I think they may want World rights (my agent is still talking to them) which would pretty much make their offer worthless.
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Indeed, considering Joshua's successes with Elantris...unless they mean just World English rights...considering... ;)
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Offer Number Three:
Scholastic, offering the same as Houghton per book, but only for North American. Also, they think the series should be four books instead of six, and want to rewrite it slightly to make it middle-grade and sell it in schools.
Revision on two: Houghton upped their offer to double Tor's, but they still want world rights.
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Like I was telling you at Christmastime, I do think it's more of a middle-grade, except for some references of the sort I pointed out. Scholastic has a HUGE sales force behind it, and they have the ability to get it in schools, so honestly, I'd go with them. They've got a lot of power in the children's market. If they put you in the book club, etc... That's no small thing. They (like all publishers of children's fantasy) are always looking for the thing after Harry Potter, so they'll really get behind it if they believe in it.
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I could be wrong, but I've heard that Scholastic is the juggernaut of the childrens and YA lit industry.
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Well, they've had some company downturns in quarters when they weren't selling Harry Potter like hotcakes, and they have had to lay off some people. They just closed down the two book clubs they absorbed that used to be independent, Troll and something else. But they still have the main book club, and they have a huge educational market they're tapped into with libraries and teachers, so combine that with their sheer presence in the bookstores, and they do quite well, I think.
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As we were talking about off-line, though, Scholastic is only the juggernaut of the elementary school market. I think once you even get to middle school, kids loose interest in Scholastic books, opting for more "mature" things like David Eddings and R. A. Salvatore. I think going with them would be a gamble.
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Which is why I noted that the Scholastic editor wants to revise the book slightly, make Alcatraz 12, and sell it to sixth graders instead of middle school students. If I sold it to them, this is what I'd want to do too.
Latest news: Houghton is now the front-runner. They dropped off their world rights bid, and are now asking for North American only, yet are offering the same amount.
This is kind of fun.
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Wow, now I wish I'd read it while it was needing reviews (not that I didn't want to, but someone else always had it). Way cool, Brandon.
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As we were talking about off-line, though, Scholastic is only the juggernaut of the elementary school market. I think once you even get to middle school, kids loose interest in Scholastic books, opting for more "mature" things like David Eddings and R. A. Salvatore. I think going with them would be a gamble.
Depends on who you're talking to. The YA market is huge right now and only growing, and Scholastic is actually a mover in that world, and in the middle grade world, not just elementary. Like I said, they have teacher and librarian contacts that many other publishers would kill for. Some kids do skip over YA, but that's really opening up right now, and I wouldn't poo-poo it.
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Techinically, sixth graders are in middle school. A school that is just seventh and eighth is a junior high.
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Ah, good point. I keep forgetting that is the case some places. In Nebraska, we only had k-6 grade schools. However, in a lot of the country, 6-8 are together, aren't they?
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As a school teacher, I should let you know about something called Accelerated Reading. It's a good/bad (depends who you talk to) program that assigns reading levels and points to books. These books are then highly sought after by teachers so that their students can earn "points." Points that, in the summer, will all be erased and the students have to start earning them all over again in the fall.
Anyway, I'd find out who's in charge of that program and go with them.
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I think most books with a big publisher can get an accelerated reader test. The school librarian just has to request a copy of it for her school. If a test doesn't exist, the librarian still has the option of writing a test for the book herself, though few school librarians are willing to go to this effort since they are already overworked and underpaid.
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Ah, good point. I keep forgetting that is the case some places. In Nebraska, we only had k-6 grade schools. However, in a lot of the country, 6-8 are together, aren't they?
After we graduated Lincoln moved 6th grade into the Junior highs.
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I've heard of a lot of 7-9 schools, but no 6-8. Why can't everybody just do things the right way (i.e., the way I did them)?
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Well up until I graduated my Highschool was 7-12.
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So, I had a nice conversation with a Scholastic editor today. She spent a good deal of it begging me to choose her publisher, then the rest talking about her editorial vision of the novel. (Which, coincidentally, was very impressive. Also, it was nearly identical to what Stacer had to say on the book.)
Anyway, now SHE'S sending me some free books. Garth Nix, Keys to the Kingdom.
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Hah! This reinforces my feeling that I have found my true calling. :)
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"When publishers compete, you win!®"
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Don't do it! Don't doo-OO-oo-OO-oo it. Go with Harper Col-LINS! Or Houghton. The art is pinnacle! But money is nice. And Garth Nix is a very good author. But there is enough YA fiction in the world, darn it! :-X
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Um, did HarperCollins even offer?
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And, finally, we have the Little & Brown offer. They want four books, like Scholastic, but they're offering three times the original Tor offer per book. In money, that puts them equal in advance to Houghton, but for fewer books. (That's good, in a more per book way, but bad in a committed to fewer books way.)
They also gave us a very impressive marketing plan.
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So let me see if I'm right; Their are offering 50k-60K? I'm trying to see if my mental math is as good as I want it to be. Or am I just way of in space?
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And, finally, we have the Little & Brown offer. They want four books, like Scholastic, but they're offering three times the original Tor offer per book. In money, that puts them equal in advance to Houghton, but for fewer books. (That's good, in a more per book way, but bad in a committed to fewer books way.)
They also gave us a very impressive marketing plan.
If you decide to go with Little, Brown, be sure to learn their name doesn't have an &. :D
Are they suggesting the same editorial changes as Scholastic?
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So let me see if I'm right; Their are offering 50k-60K? I'm trying to see if my mental math is as good as I want it to be. Or am I just way of in space?
you're off by a bit.
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Hmm, committed to fewer books? Or they just want the series tied up and done with at four books?
There's something to be said for series that finish up.
Of course, if you have six books, and they significantly sell past their advance, you'll end up with more than you would with four books that significantly sell past their advance.
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Forgive my ingnorance. Again. But were they intended to be children's books originally?
And congratulations on a big contract.
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wow, tough choices. if Little, Brown is asking for similar editorial changes, then you have to look at the effectiveness of a solid marketing plan. what are some of the goodies in the marketing plan, and who would be doing the cover art in the various cases? I hate to say it, but nearly everyone on some level judges a book by its cover.
also, just a thing i have noticed in dealing with libraries and teachers lately at Waldens - there are many unhappy people with Scholastic right now. Of course, maybe that's just when they compare Scholastic to my utter awesomeness.
;)
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you're off by a bit.
Thought so, am I higher or lower?
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also, just a thing i have noticed in dealing with libraries and teachers lately at Waldens - there are many unhappy people with Scholastic right now. Of course, maybe that's just when they compare Scholastic to my utter awesomeness.
Do you mean they're unhappy with the book clubs? I can see why--they're not very high quality printings. But the point is that it helps get the word out about books, and they're cheap versions of the books that kids get to get for themselves. Or do you mean they're not very happy with the books themselves?
Lanternpost said:
Forgive my ingnorance. Again. But were they intended to be children's books originally?
If you mean in comparison to being adult books, yes. EUOL didn't know which audience he should be targeting. He was saying YA (12-18), but I was telling him that the voice sounded more middle grade (8-12).
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besides the book-clubs, they seem to be unhappy with the people they have dealt with recently. they feel a bit jerked around. Libraries and schools do complain a bit about the quality as well. A lot of people come to us now because we give nearly the same discount on a wider variety of books and dont charge shipping. However, i agree on the point that they are great for kids themselves. Parents generally love Scholastic.
I do agree with you on the side of the shear number of books printed. They are monsters when it comes to that!
You were also right on the voice of the book. it is definatly middle grade with some higher age humor in it - not unlike many of the computer animated movies lately.
i dont know really anybody here, but what do you do stacer?
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I'm a children's book editor, and I have a master's in children's literature. So basically, children's/YA books are what I do.
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Diamante, have you introduced yourself? (http://www.timewastersguide.com/boards/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1051196804) because I couldn't find you on that thread.
nm, found it.
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way cool stacer! that seems like an awesome job!
and yes, i did the whole introduction thing as you found. I know, boring stuff...I still do, however, own the glory for setting up Brandons's biggest signing (I think I still do anyway)! Anyways, anyone can ask me anything if they feel I can be of help (or just come see me at the store!).
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193503,00.html
Plagiarism aside, how come YOU didn't get offered a 6 figure deal with Little,Brown and Company?
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Because he's not a teenaged Indian-American writing his first amazing book at the age of 17.
It's all about the "wow" factor. Look at Eragon. It's not like anyone (before discovering plagiarism) was lauding "Opal" for its originality, anymore than Eragon was. It's for the youth of the author. "Wow! Look! Isn't it amazing! They're so young!"
(And by the way, most people in the industry that I've talked to think that half a million is entirely too much for someone so inexperienced. Most great authors in YA don't merit that much.)
EDIT: I just read that they'd only shipped 55,000 copies. That's pretty low for a $500,000 advance, even with a second book in the works. They only sold through about 9,600 copies before they pulled the book. Even if she was making a 15% royalty, if they sold every copy on the shelves, she'd only earn out $139,837 of that advance at a $16.95 price point. Of course, I think they were marketing it as an adult, so perhaps the cover price is higher. Dunno. Can't see it on amazon now that it's been pulled--most of the used & new books from other sellers are selling for $12.95, but I don't think that's the original cover price.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193503,00.html
Plagiarism aside, how come YOU didn't get offered a 6 figure deal with Little,Brown and Company?
Um, I did. Of course, mine was six figures for four books--however, a lot of these deals that look really high are less high when you factor in how many books there were in the deal. For instance, Terry Goodkind's first deal--which has an amazing six figures--was for three books. (His numbers were still extremely good--higher than anything I'm likely to get for some time--but not quite as good as everyone thought.)
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Awesome EUOL. I was fishing for hints. You rock.
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i agree with stacer - people are more concerned with the "wow" factor. Here is what a lot of people say to me when they come in, "Wow, that Eragon was a pretty good book - especially when I found out he was 15 when he wrote it." I have my own opinions about this sort of thing.
As far as Brandon's deal, I'm just glad it's gonna get purchased, and published. It deserves it. I think it's what the genre needs right now, and what the readers need.
And don't even get me started on what I think of Goodkind.
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Man. I've been lax--I really should be giving you guys a blow-by-blow on this, eh?
Today was the deadline for ALCATRAZ offers, and so far, they have not disappointed. Three of the four houses have made final offers.
Tor
Houghton
Little, Brown.
I really feel uncomfortable talking numbers and the like, particularly when no deal is firm yet, and a house hasn't even been picked. However, let me say that the current leading offer is twice what the leading offer was as of yesterday.
We're still waiting on Scholastic. I'm hoping for something big from them.
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Joshua is definatly earning his 10% with this one.
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No kidding. W O W. :o
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I know how much said offer is at now and it about floored me. I can understand why EUOL's not giving out this info right now too, especially with them waiting for one more publisher.
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Okay, Scholastic's offer is in, and it's comparable to the one from Little, Brown.
That puts us at kind of a tie. Little Brown has offered the most per book, but for four books.
Houghton has offered only slightly less per book, but for six books.
Scholastic has offered the same per book as Houghton, but for four books.
Tor is, unfortunately, far lower than the other three.
Both of the four-book offers say that they'll plan to do more books if the series does well, so it's not that they're making me limit myself to four. So, that is only a small factor in the decision. I guess it comes down to which publisher I want, and who I think is going to push the book the hardest.
I will post marketing highlights here once I have them. Stacer, I sure could use some advice in this arena, since it appears that I have to pick between three very similar offers....
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It might be better for you to email me on this one, actually, so I can hear details on what the editorial vision sounds like from each. You're welcome to. But from what I can tell on this thread, and from what I know of the houses, I'd probably go with any of the top three, really. Each has their own advantage.
Little, Brown is a much smaller house than Scholastic and will probably give you a lot of attention. Houghton is Boston-based, so it's out of the New York crowd and has a slightly different vision, but most of their editors concentrate on picture books as far as I last knew. The last editor I knew there in trade left last year, so I have less personal connection to what their editorial vision is as far as fantasy goes, and the only reason I think of them in connection with fantasy at all is because of LotR. But Houghton does also have a really small trade department--meaning lots of personal attention to the books, because their line is smaller--but has the monetary backing of the whole company as far as promotion goes.
Scholastic, though, has a *machine* as far as promotion goes, and who knows, with being such a large house, they probably are able to let editors not be so swamped as a little house might be (i.e., fewer books per editor). But they made a whole bunch of cuts just a couple months ago, so that may not be true.
Tor is... well, they're a new imprint, so they could really use the boost of a hit for Starscape, but their editorial vision doesn't really match the feeling of Alcatraz to me. Most of what I've seen coming from Starscape is high fantasy with the standard tropes, published in original paperback. They released a YA fantasy anthology last year purporting to be "new" fantasy that had no story newer than 2000, and most were reprints from adult authors in the 80s. Not one YA author in the whole anthology that wasn't primarily an adult author.
I mean, part of me says that you'd want to help the new imprint out, but if you're being offered big money by the others, that means they're really going to believe in it and promote it. If it's even half the figure that the Opal Mehta book that everyone's talking about right now, you'd be guaranteed a lot of press, reviews, etc. Before the plagiarism thing hit, Opal Mehta was being talked about on all the library listservs, librarians asking where to shelve it, what people thought of it, etc.
For me, it comes between the top three's editorial vision. If they're really close on per-book, I wouldn't worry about whether it's 4 or 6. If it does well, they'll contract you for more, and finding a great editor that you really feel you'll work well with will be worth the difference in the books if you pick the one who only is offering 4.
But like I said, I'd be interested in hearing details about what the editors said editorially.
Oh, and which imprint of Scholastic are we talking about? That's important. If it's Arthur Levine, that trumps everything. Go with Arthur.
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One more thing. It's too bad you never heard from HarperCollins or Candlewick. Most of my favorite books on my bookshelf come from one of those two houses. And looking back at the list, I'm surprised not to see Bloomsbury, which is another of my top favorite houses.
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That's a tough choice many people here would love to have.
Once you've gotten all the information and Stacer's feedback, you might want to pray about it.
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Or use the Magic 8-ball, that's what I do.
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As EUOL's old EQP I would counsel him to pray as well. Then he should go to lunch with me. (aka Flash, Rich, Gordo, and other names)
That's a tough choice many people here would love to have.
Once you've gotten all the information and Stacer's feedback, you might want to pray about it.
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You should seek the ninja's wisdom.
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Isn't there a table for this kind of decision in D&D 3.6?
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Forget D&D. Go with the ouija board!
Well, to be serious, prayer would be the way to go once you've taken into account the great advice from Stacer. (I, too, would say that, if Levine is in the mix, he trumps the other considerations.) Nice going, EUOL! It's very exciting to see this play out.
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All this hooplah over a prison. I didn't even know EUOL owned land in San Francisco, let alone an island. If Scholastic gets it, I hope they make it into a school.
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Stacer, I've sent you an email with all the juicy details. (And no, it's not Levine, unfortunately.)
Talked to all three of the editors today, and am still having a tough time deciding. Will probably choose a deal by Monday. If anyone has any advice, now would be the time to give it!
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I say Little Brown.
-Smaller pond = bigger fish.
-Smaller house = better relationship with editor
-Fewer books keeps you free to pursue other ideas or not, in case you get bored after 4.
-Show me the money!
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I still vote for Peanuts.
Oh, wait--wrong thread.
I think Skar made a good point. How many books do you want to be tied into? Maybe you only want to do four, but if you for sure want to do more, then it would make sense to me to go with the 6 book deal, because then you're guaranteed it, whereas with the other one, things are more up in the air. Then again, if they're not doing hot after 4 books, you might not want to do 5 or 6. Sigh. Just keep telling yourself that this is one of the BEST problems you could be dealing with.
At the same time, remember that marketing does do a lot. There are some books I've read that I've been blown away by, but I never heard about them. I think if enough people read Alcatraz, it'll start to snowball from there.
I don't know if any of this even helps. I'll shut up now.
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Replied via email. To summarize, my top choices would be Little, Brown or Scholastic. Both are great houses, with different strengths, and it sounds like it'll come down to your feelings about how you'd work with the editors.
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Little, Brown.
I mean look at the success of The Historian. Okay, much different kind of book. They don't necessarily publish a lot of popular books but that occasional title . . . you know . . . becomes VERY popular. Of course, Stacer would know a lot more about that than I would.
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After much debate, I decided to go with Scholastic (assuming they are willing to work with us on one of their royalty rates.)
Little, Brown was the second choice. Everyone I talked to told me not to discount them, but they also tended to admit that Scholastic was their initial, gut choice. I think I would have done well with either. In the end, it came down to the letter that the scholastic editor sent me. It just seemed the most enthusiastic.
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Congrats! I think that's a good choice. Good luck with it.
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Cool. Congratulations.
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That's awesome. Best of luck.
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Good luck! Has there been any sort of timetable discussion?
(assuming they are willing to work with us on one of their royalty rates.)
This makes me curious...
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Congratulations. That is very cool.
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Coolness. Kudos!
So you'll be writing three more books in the series?
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Yes, I'll be doing at least three more books. Scholastic indicated they'd probably want to do more, but we'll have to see how they're selling.
Ookla, they wanted a hardback royalty break at 50k, which was a lot higher than the other two publishers. If this DOES take off, I want to be to 15% by 20k, not 100k.
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Congrats on the deal.
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Good job on the deal. It looks like your writing career can continue for sometime now.
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196470,00.html
Second-Grader Swims From Alcatraz
SAN FRANCISCO ? A 7-year-old Arizona boy swam through calm waters and a favorable tide Monday to become one of the youngest swimmers to cross the channel from Alcatraz Island to San Francisco.
Braxton Bilbrey, a second-grader from Glendale, Ariz., made the estimated 1.4-mile swim to Aquatic Park in 47 minutes, according to his coach. {more}
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Wow a contract isn't even signed yet and Scholastic is already starting a promotional campaign.
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My coworker came back from BEA reporting that she met Joshua and Steve, and that they told her all about Alcatraz. She said that Joshua kept calling us TSR--"we should get Brandon to write something for TSR!"
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lol. Sounds like Joshua. He certainly has his quirks. Apparently, he hunted down the president of Scholastic and chatted with her about ALCATRAZ.