Author Topic: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*  (Read 4795 times)

kari-no-sugata

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2011, 06:13:15 PM »
Quote
Certainly Dalinar is special in some way - after all, he's been reliably getting visions/messages from the Almighty for some time now. Of course, he may not be unique in this - others may be getting them now, or got them in the past.

There is other getting them as well- or at least one other:

Chapter 66-
“That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices.”
Kaktach 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. A middle-aged potter. Reported seeing strange dreams during highstorms during the last two years.

Hmm. No indication what type of dreams though - for example, Kaladin has that interesting dream of being the storm in chapter 46, and that occurred during a highstorm.  So "strange dreams during highstorms" doesn't necessarily mean similar stuff to what Dalinar is getting.

Actually though, that gives me a good thought: if the "ghost of The Almighty" (as it were) is sending out messages to lots of people saying "unite them" etc then that actually would be rather risky - since they could easily end up working at cross-purposes (even good men can do this if they don't know why others are doing what they're doing). For example, maybe Taravangian got some similar dreams in the past, leading to his current actions...? (though I wouldn't be surprised if he's stopped getting them since)

blackmagic7

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant?
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2011, 06:38:41 AM »
I like 8th order (resolute/builder) for Dalinar, he's certainly very resolute when he puts his mind to things, and he's trying to build a real unified alliance among the highprinces. Also his personal chosen virtue (Glory) is determination.
The determination devotary is named after Talenel'Elin  the Herald who also called Stonesinew, from Talenel's description in the prologue it is safe to say that he is the herald related to the 8th order

Feloxia

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2011, 08:50:13 AM »
No, I wasn't on this forum then. I would be pretty impressed to see such predictions pan out as described. But I would also challenge how many other theories were proposed at the time? Sure, one or six start to emerge as more plausible as more people clamor to refine it.

An educated reader can make almost any theory sound plausible, even if it was not the athor's intent. Ever read the essay which demonstrates that Fight Club was about Calvin and Hobbes? Or any of the more plausible theories from the WMG (Wild Mass Guess) section of tvtropes?

Everyone invovled will remember the correct theory with vigor once it has been proven, regardless how many erroneous theories were proposed alongside. Or how many erroneous details were accidentally attached to the correct theory, though they were part of a different puzzle.

Dalinar-as-Radiant may well prove to be true (likely), this text may even point to it (I have my doubts). I'm just reserving judgment because the passage quoted doesn't prove anything conclusively to me-as-reader without something more substantial.

I'm still not remotely certain why you think the evidence is bad or weak.  Two knowledgeable characters, over the course of a few very crowded minutes, notice in passing that Dalinar is doing things that shouldn't be possible, even in the magic system they are already familiar with.  It can't be the grandeur of Shards, like you've been trying to claim, for the very simple reason that the viewpoint characters are all familiar with the normal behavior of shards, and it isn't anything they have seen before.  (Most observers, even in-world, would probably not have noticed anything out of the ordinary.)  They don't remark on them afterwards, because the minutes were so crowded, and it's easy to write things like that off as being due to a heated imagination.  They don't expect anything unusual to happen, so they write it off.

We, on the other hand, are readers.  We know, from other characters' viewpoints, that the magic is coming back.  Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, etc., have begun manifesting things that are the stuff of legend.  We also know that the Knights Radiant had more powers than "modern" shardbearers manifest, and we even know some of the manifestations, such as the glowing armor, manipulation of forces, and so on.  In fact, we even know that one of the orders is called Stonesinew, which strongly suggests increased stamina, speed, and so on, very much like Thugs from mistborn.  In addition, we have the further meta-knowledge that the books are about interesting characters.  Combine all those with the fact that, for a very short time, Dalinar exhibited unusual strength, speed, stamina, control over his trajectory when he shouldn't have had it, and even possibly began to glow during this unusual burst of strength (although the viewpoint character writes that off as imagination), it seems extremely likely that he is manifesting the powers of one of the orders of Knights Radiant.  Lastly, we have the fact that magic on Roshar is related to character traits, and that Dalinar has been improving his character enormously from reading Way of Kings, making him more likely than the average Schmoe to be a Radiant, and I have a hard time doubting this theory.
Just putting it out there, but if Dalinar is slowly becoming a KR now, why was his Blackthorn state present before even knowing about The Way of Kings? Before he started becoming what he is at the end? I've only thought of this so far as one explanation-
He was incredibly skilled with the sword beforehand, and it's now even better because he is enhanced by unconscious use of stormlight
Tell all the Truth but tell it slant---
Success in Cirrcuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightening to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind---

By Emily Dickinson

happyman

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2011, 09:11:15 PM »
No, I wasn't on this forum then. I would be pretty impressed to see such predictions pan out as described. But I would also challenge how many other theories were proposed at the time? Sure, one or six start to emerge as more plausible as more people clamor to refine it.

An educated reader can make almost any theory sound plausible, even if it was not the athor's intent. Ever read the essay which demonstrates that Fight Club was about Calvin and Hobbes? Or any of the more plausible theories from the WMG (Wild Mass Guess) section of tvtropes?

Everyone invovled will remember the correct theory with vigor once it has been proven, regardless how many erroneous theories were proposed alongside. Or how many erroneous details were accidentally attached to the correct theory, though they were part of a different puzzle.

Dalinar-as-Radiant may well prove to be true (likely), this text may even point to it (I have my doubts). I'm just reserving judgment because the passage quoted doesn't prove anything conclusively to me-as-reader without something more substantial.

I'm still not remotely certain why you think the evidence is bad or weak.  Two knowledgeable characters, over the course of a few very crowded minutes, notice in passing that Dalinar is doing things that shouldn't be possible, even in the magic system they are already familiar with.  It can't be the grandeur of Shards, like you've been trying to claim, for the very simple reason that the viewpoint characters are all familiar with the normal behavior of shards, and it isn't anything they have seen before.  (Most observers, even in-world, would probably not have noticed anything out of the ordinary.)  They don't remark on them afterwards, because the minutes were so crowded, and it's easy to write things like that off as being due to a heated imagination.  They don't expect anything unusual to happen, so they write it off.

We, on the other hand, are readers.  We know, from other characters' viewpoints, that the magic is coming back.  Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, etc., have begun manifesting things that are the stuff of legend.  We also know that the Knights Radiant had more powers than "modern" shardbearers manifest, and we even know some of the manifestations, such as the glowing armor, manipulation of forces, and so on.  In fact, we even know that one of the orders is called Stonesinew, which strongly suggests increased stamina, speed, and so on, very much like Thugs from mistborn.  In addition, we have the further meta-knowledge that the books are about interesting characters.  Combine all those with the fact that, for a very short time, Dalinar exhibited unusual strength, speed, stamina, control over his trajectory when he shouldn't have had it, and even possibly began to glow during this unusual burst of strength (although the viewpoint character writes that off as imagination), it seems extremely likely that he is manifesting the powers of one of the orders of Knights Radiant.  Lastly, we have the fact that magic on Roshar is related to character traits, and that Dalinar has been improving his character enormously from reading Way of Kings, making him more likely than the average Schmoe to be a Radiant, and I have a hard time doubting this theory.
Just putting it out there, but if Dalinar is slowly becoming a KR now, why was his Blackthorn state present before even knowing about The Way of Kings? Before he started becoming what he is at the end? I've only thought of this so far as one explanation-
He was incredibly skilled with the sword beforehand, and it's now even better because he is enhanced by unconscious use of stormlight


Remember what it says in the book?  Stormlight perfects what is there, but it does not grant skill.  Dalinar is clearly skilled without any magical help.  I just feel that, like you said, he's now excelling beyond what even he thought was possible.  Certainly in that little skirmish, he did things without knowing how he did them.
Nature hates being reified.

Feloxia

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2011, 01:52:18 AM »
No, I wasn't on this forum then. I would be pretty impressed to see such predictions pan out as described. But I would also challenge how many other theories were proposed at the time? Sure, one or six start to emerge as more plausible as more people clamor to refine it.

An educated reader can make almost any theory sound plausible, even if it was not the athor's intent. Ever read the essay which demonstrates that Fight Club was about Calvin and Hobbes? Or any of the more plausible theories from the WMG (Wild Mass Guess) section of tvtropes?

Everyone invovled will remember the correct theory with vigor once it has been proven, regardless how many erroneous theories were proposed alongside. Or how many erroneous details were accidentally attached to the correct theory, though they were part of a different puzzle.

Dalinar-as-Radiant may well prove to be true (likely), this text may even point to it (I have my doubts). I'm just reserving judgment because the passage quoted doesn't prove anything conclusively to me-as-reader without something more substantial.

I'm still not remotely certain why you think the evidence is bad or weak.  Two knowledgeable characters, over the course of a few very crowded minutes, notice in passing that Dalinar is doing things that shouldn't be possible, even in the magic system they are already familiar with.  It can't be the grandeur of Shards, like you've been trying to claim, for the very simple reason that the viewpoint characters are all familiar with the normal behavior of shards, and it isn't anything they have seen before.  (Most observers, even in-world, would probably not have noticed anything out of the ordinary.)  They don't remark on them afterwards, because the minutes were so crowded, and it's easy to write things like that off as being due to a heated imagination.  They don't expect anything unusual to happen, so they write it off.

We, on the other hand, are readers.  We know, from other characters' viewpoints, that the magic is coming back.  Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah, etc., have begun manifesting things that are the stuff of legend.  We also know that the Knights Radiant had more powers than "modern" shardbearers manifest, and we even know some of the manifestations, such as the glowing armor, manipulation of forces, and so on.  In fact, we even know that one of the orders is called Stonesinew, which strongly suggests increased stamina, speed, and so on, very much like Thugs from mistborn.  In addition, we have the further meta-knowledge that the books are about interesting characters.  Combine all those with the fact that, for a very short time, Dalinar exhibited unusual strength, speed, stamina, control over his trajectory when he shouldn't have had it, and even possibly began to glow during this unusual burst of strength (although the viewpoint character writes that off as imagination), it seems extremely likely that he is manifesting the powers of one of the orders of Knights Radiant.  Lastly, we have the fact that magic on Roshar is related to character traits, and that Dalinar has been improving his character enormously from reading Way of Kings, making him more likely than the average Schmoe to be a Radiant, and I have a hard time doubting this theory.
Just putting it out there, but if Dalinar is slowly becoming a KR now, why was his Blackthorn state present before even knowing about The Way of Kings? Before he started becoming what he is at the end? I've only thought of this so far as one explanation-
He was incredibly skilled with the sword beforehand, and it's now even better because he is enhanced by unconscious use of stormlight


Remember what it says in the book?  Stormlight perfects what is there, but it does not grant skill.  Dalinar is clearly skilled without any magical help.  I just feel that, like you said, he's now excelling beyond what even he thought was possible.  Certainly in that little skirmish, he did things without knowing how he did them.

Yes, well I was just wondering if he was able to use any stormlight before starting on the WoK. Since it doesn't say much about it in the book (even vaguely), though, I'll just have to wait and find out  :(
Tell all the Truth but tell it slant---
Success in Cirrcuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightening to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind---

By Emily Dickinson

cromptj

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2011, 10:17:07 AM »
But if I remember correctly, the Radiants all gained their Powers from spren. If this is the case why haven't we seen any evidence of an intelligent spren around Dalinar like Syl and Kaladin?

happyman

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2011, 05:10:00 PM »
But if I remember correctly, the Radiants all gained their Powers from spren. If this is the case why haven't we seen any evidence of an intelligent spren around Dalinar like Syl and Kaladin?

There's good evidence Kaladin was tapping his powers slightly while the bond was still relatively weak.  In the introductory scene, his fighting seems superhuman.  I mean, he fought a Shardholder and won!  Syl hadn't introduced herself at all at that point.
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cromptj

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2011, 08:48:02 PM »
But it has already been confirmed that both Kaladin and Dalinar are incredibly skilled anyway. Also, where did Kaladin get his stormlight from if he was surgebinding before we see Syl? He says when he is part of bridge 4 that he has to carry his spheres so no one steals them, which suggests that he did not do so before. So although I do think that Dalinar will become a Radiant, I don't think it is happening yet. (unless, of course, his powers manifested due to his visions from the Almighty)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 04:10:14 PM by cromptj »

happyman

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2011, 04:40:05 PM »
But it has already been confirmed that both Kaladin and Dalinar are incredibly skilled anyway. Also, where did Kaladin get his stormlight from if he was surgebinding before we see Syl? He says when he is part of bridge 4 that he has to carry his spheres so no one steals them, which suggests that he did not do so before. So although I do think that Dalinar will become a Radiant, I don't think it is happening yet. (unless, of course, his powers manifested due to his visions from the Almighty)

I don't remember the details, but I'm pretty sure he was carrying spheres as part of a bribe to get the raw recruit onto his squad.
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cromptj

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Re: Dalinar as a possible radiant? *Spoilers*
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2011, 09:20:08 PM »
But he did pay out the spheres for the bribe. Also he surely would have used up a most all of the stormlight earlier.http://