Author Topic: April 18 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Canticle and the Forge, Chapter 15  (Read 1935 times)

LongTimeUnderdog

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Now that Jin has been caught doing something incredibly stupid to impress a lady, We move onto the consequences of that problem . . . and more.

akoebel

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Re: April 18 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Canticle and the Forge, Chapter 15
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 08:25:53 PM »
This chapter was actually the fastest read of all the pieces I got from you.

The epigram is strong (and short, thanks) : it makes for a powerful introduction.

I enjoyed Jin's depiction of his gaol and Chalinae's entrance. Her cursing was very much in character.
I got to see some use of the magic system, which was also nice.

I have some issues about the way Jin is saved by his parent's. It just feels like rich parents went down to the police station and bailed their pampered child out of jail. In the previous chapter, it was hinted that the whole family was at risk, and here, it's all forgotten, Mother is still very much in power, and the only visible consequence is Jin having to do some community work. This feels very disappointing.
I don't know what you intend to do with Chalinae, but I think that having Jin actually witness what's being done to her would have been much more powerful than just hearing some cries. That would have been a visible consequence. Right now, it's just some screams happening backstage. It's not enough to bother the reader.

On the typographical side, the voice bothered me a little. I mean here that it's difficult to see the difference between unquoted dialog (from the voice) and regular dialog. As you didn't put an attribution here, it was a little disorienting when I first read that part. It also forced me to pay too much attention to the presence or absence of quotes in the following sentences. I think that putting attributions or italicising those portions would have greatly helped my reading.

This chapter has really sparked up my interest. I'm looking forward to the next piece.

LongTimeUnderdog

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Re: April 18 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Canticle and the Forge, Chapter 15
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 02:49:38 PM »
Thanks for reading!  Your comments are very helpful, and very appreciated.

hubay

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Re: April 18 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Canticle and the Forge, Chapter 15
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 10:41:24 PM »
I agree with akoebel, the epigraph was good. I would just reword this to make it stronger: "Bright or not, she was the victim and I was to consume her. " After the comma it just sounds a bit awkward. I think one of things I'm looking forward to most with your story is finding out who/what sin is and maybe meeting him/it.

Actually, I thought the bit with Chalinae worked. Since his mom mentions "bleeding" I assume she's being raped? I think it might make it more powerful if you have Jin wonder what she means by that for a half second, and then think "Oh. Oh no."

Right now two things are bothering me. When Chalinae says that "no one actually steals a flower, they just say they did," it sounds like some sort of coming of age ritual. If that's the case, shouldn't the woman by the flowers have known about the tradition, given him a sort of slap on the wrist, and told him that's not how it works? I feel like part of me not getting this is because we don't know why the flower is so important yet. Understandably, you're keeping us in the dark, but until you do I'm going to keep feeling like the whole ordeal didn't make much sense.

The other thing that's bothering me is Talvin. I get that he's not quite a people person, but they way you're writing him now reads like he's crossed over from just being a stern parent to actually coming close to hating Jin. He seems like a nice guy overall, so I can only assume you've written his frustration a little stronger than you intended, or he's a pretty terrible parent.


At some point soon, I think it would help to show what happens to an escaped slave. Unless I'm mistaken, most of the slaves are men, and a lot of the owners are women? So it's not unlike akoebel's world, just crueler and more intense. Two questions, then, that won't make much sense unless I'm correct: where do babies come from? Really, though –  normally slaves are bred by owners, so do women just pick slaves they want as fathers, and send any boy babies back to be slaves?

second: how is the slavery enforced? Normally you need a ruling populace with force multipliers (read: weapons) that allow them to keep down an unarmed slave majority. So the only way women should be in charge is via some sort of supernatural power, or else through the willing aid of other men. Which brings me back to seeing an escaped slave punished. If it's supernatural, then cool – we see magic. If it's through collaborators, it's also good because then you see the inhumanity of slaves that willingly persecute their own kind. And if it's something else entirely, well, show me that, cuz it's a pretty big part of how your world works.

LongTimeUnderdog

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Re: April 18 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Canticle and the Forge, Chapter 15
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 11:59:51 PM »
Hubay, thanks for reading.  You've given me a lot to think about.  But for your own personal information, most of what your wrote tells me I AM actually communicating what I want to about the world, that someone is getting it, and that I'm not as bad as I thought I was.

Asmodemon

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This chapter is very fast paced, even more so than the last. In previous chapters you put in a lot more background information that, while interesting, does take the pace of the piece down. This one is very immediate with some very brutal aspects. I again liked the Sin excerpt, short and to the point, and more in line with the excerpt in chapter thirteen.

Most of the chapter worked very well for me. The society is very ruthless and cutthroat, not just for the male slaves but the women who vie for power. Once you’re in the gaol all bets are off. In that context what happened with Chalinae worked very well, from her tirades to her rape, which you never actually specified, but what else can it be?

One of the things that didn’t work as well for me is the matter of what Jin knows and doesn’t seem to know fluctuates a lot. He quickly realizes that the holes can, and probably are, used for spying and that they put Chalinae in there with him so she can incriminate herself. But then when Chalinae screams he had no idea what they’re doing to her – maybe a normal ten year old wouldn’t know, but Jin is supposed to be so smart and given society as a whole shouldn’t he know?

Despite what happens to Chalinae, and right now no one actually says she’s being raped, but the signs are very clear, it doesn’t have much of an effect on Jin, and through Jin it doesn’t have much of an effect on the reader. Having him see what’s happening, or at least the start of it, or if his mother’s words about her bleeding make him realize what’s happened and we can see and feel his horror, that makes for a more powerful chapter. As it is he struggles a bit for her and then seems to put her out of his mind the moment he sees his parents. True his parents are formidable and he might be too scared to speak up, but at least his thoughts would go to Chalinae more than they are now. She is the girl for whom he went to all this trouble after all.

Compared to Chalinae Jin does seem to get off easy, also taking into account the threats at the end of the previous chapter. I get that his parents want him alive, even if only for his magic, but to the people making the decisions he’s just a kid. From what we’ve seen so far, again with the threats of the last chapter, I didn’t think his parents had that much influence. After the build up and the gaol the ending of the chapter is a little lacklustre as a result.

On the whole this was one of the most, if not the most, enjoyable chapters so far.