Author Topic: knights radient  (Read 5881 times)

EvilNuff

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2010, 04:02:54 PM »
The spren affinity has some logic.  The problem I have with that theory, however, is the lack of spren in Dalinar's visions.  There are none and there are still Knights Radient...

CragN8R

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2010, 06:34:32 PM »
I wonder if Szeth's lack of a spren has to do with his Shardblade. We know that the blades changed after the knights gaave them up, since Dalinar said that he saw a light leaving them. Plus Syl said that she didn't like the blade and thought that Dalinar was better without it. So what if Szeth's lack of spren is due to the fact that he hold a "cursed" blade?

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2010, 08:46:23 PM »
The theory itself isn't entirely absurd the assumption that it is fact, and the amount of certainty that the people supporting it make it seem as if they believe it is fact, IS absurd. Fabrials are powered by spren? Please give me a quote from the book that says this or even remotely supports it. I may have a poor recollection but i can't think of ANY evidence to support that claim, less in fact than the theory that Szeth has an honor spren (which is contrary to everything we know of him and his homeland).
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nomti

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2010, 09:27:20 PM »
The spren affinity has some logic.  The problem I have with that theory, however, is the lack of spren in Dalinar's visions.  There are none and there are still Knights Radient...

In the vision with Nohadon, he specifically mentions honorspren, and how the antagonist in the recent civil war had a different, less discriminating kind of spren.

douglas

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 09:37:02 PM »
Fabrials are powered by spren? Please give me a quote from the book that says this or even remotely supports it.
See this thread. It's a bit of an easter egg, as it's in one of the pictures in the book and in a simple code. Breaking the code produces, among other things:
Quote
The cut and type of the gem determines what kind of spren are attracted to it and can be imprisoned in it. There must be thousands of possible combinations.
Once a spren is captured and the gem infused with Stormlight the fabrial can be used in machines.

less in fact than the theory that Szeth has an honor spren (which is contrary to everything we know of him and his homeland).
Contrary to what we know of his homeland?  Yes. Weakened by the fact that we never see any such spren around him? Yes. Contrary to what we know of him specifically? Not even close.

It is abundantly clear from many references throughout Szeth's scenes that he is an extremely honorable man, forced to do despicable things because his honor will not allow him to break an oath. He is also a Surgebinder, and there is quite substantial evidence that Surgebinding abilities come from bonding with an honorspren. There might conceivably be other ways, and a comment in one of Dalinar's visions implies that at least one other type of spren can grant Surgebinding, but none have been revealed yet.

KhyEllie

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2011, 02:00:55 AM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

CabbyHat

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2011, 04:41:51 PM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

That's... an interesting theory. The only thing I can think of at the moment is, if that's the case, why did they give up their shards at all? The Parshendi quite clearly desire shardplate and shardblades and will throw a lot of effort after getting them.
Just an idle comment. My comments are often idle. I can never get them to do any solid work.

KhyEllie

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2011, 05:38:42 AM »
Yeah, I see that too. So I wonder if Jasnah's got it wrong and the voidbringers are the Parshendi. But that seems to bring up a lot more questions than the other option...

Ari54

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 04:37:54 AM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

It might explain why they seem to have access to shards. We run into the issue of where the Spren for the Parshendi are, given that characters that should be able to see them (e.g. Rock and Kaladin) can't. This isn't insurmountable given we also have to explain Szeth's apparent lack of or suppression of his Spren.

There still seem to be magic systems we don't know about, so this could for instance explain how high the Parshendi can jump.

Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 05:42:38 AM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

I don't think it was so much the knights that fell to grace, but the humans around them. Without the threat of the voidbringers, humanity started fighting amongst themselves, and the knights got sick and tired of being used in these fights, so they gave up and let humanity fight amongst themselves.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
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andygal

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2011, 05:52:33 AM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

I don't think it was so much the knights that fell to grace, but the humans around them. Without the threat of the voidbringers, humanity started fighting amongst themselves, and the knights got sick and tired of being used in these fights, so they gave up and let humanity fight amongst themselves.

You'd think if they were sick and tired of all the fighting they would have hidden the Blades and Plate away where nobody was going to find them anytime soon, of course, maybe the other orders besides the Windrunners  and Stonewards did, and that's why there are hundreds of Shards missing. Rather then you know leaving the fighting people with even better ways to kill each other.

Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2011, 05:58:49 AM »

You'd think if they were sick and tired of all the fighting they would have hidden the Blades and Plate away where nobody was going to find them anytime soon, of course, maybe the other orders besides the Windrunners  and Stonewards did, and that's why there are hundreds of Shards missing. Rather then you know leaving the fighting people with even better ways to kill each other.

Maybe they wanted to make a public display of giving up. However I am certain that there must be more knights radiants that gave up the sword that wasn't at the same place as Dalinar was. And don't forget that a lot of shards are missing. How did this happen?

Also, on a side note, what happened to the dawnshards that the heralds gave up in the prelude? Are they still there, or has someone come and taken them?
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CabbyHat

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2011, 06:27:56 PM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

I don't think it was so much the knights that fell to grace, but the humans around them. Without the threat of the voidbringers, humanity started fighting amongst themselves, and the knights got sick and tired of being used in these fights, so they gave up and let humanity fight amongst themselves.

You'd think if they were sick and tired of all the fighting they would have hidden the Blades and Plate away where nobody was going to find them anytime soon, of course, maybe the other orders besides the Windrunners  and Stonewards did, and that's why there are hundreds of Shards missing. Rather then you know leaving the fighting people with even better ways to kill each other.
Or it could be just their way of saying "You know what? You want to use these things to slaughter each other, you have fun with that. We're done."
Just an idle comment. My comments are often idle. I can never get them to do any solid work.

happyman

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2011, 03:59:03 PM »
Can I just throw out a random theory on the Knights Radiant here? I was reading the back of the book, and ended up just staring at the line, "before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us." for ten minutes.
 
For no apparently reason it occurred to me that maybe the Radiants have somehow 'fallen from grace' for lack of a better term, and that maybe they got cursed, or something to that effect.

It's been a long time since I have had the book--I just barely got it back--and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember something about the Voidbringers being the parshmen, or at least that's what Jasnah thinks. Any chance the Radiants are Parshendi? or vise versa?

I just had to write it down before I started pulling apart the flaws :P

Any thoughts?

I don't think it was so much the knights that fell to grace, but the humans around them. Without the threat of the voidbringers, humanity started fighting amongst themselves, and the knights got sick and tired of being used in these fights, so they gave up and let humanity fight amongst themselves.

You'd think if they were sick and tired of all the fighting they would have hidden the Blades and Plate away where nobody was going to find them anytime soon, of course, maybe the other orders besides the Windrunners  and Stonewards did, and that's why there are hundreds of Shards missing. Rather then you know leaving the fighting people with even better ways to kill each other.
Or it could be just their way of saying "You know what? You want to use these things to slaughter each other, you have fun with that. We're done."

You know, the scene where the Knights Radiant gave up has always seemed more than a little bit unusual to me.

In the other visions Dalinar saw, even for other parts of that same vision, things seemed "normal" until the Almighty patched in his extra message.  Humans reacted in the way humans normally react.  We didn't have the complete background, but that's OK; the feeling that it's there never really seemed to waver.  But with that vision---things seemed really, really odd.  Why didn't the Knights Radiant respond to Dalinar's questions?  Why didn't they at least say something to the people they were abandoning?  That whole scene seemed like a nightmare, not a piece of history.  Something happened with that vision, and I'm not sure what, exactly.  I don't think it's a "Odium tampered with the visions," not the same way it happened in Mistborn.  But something seems really, really off.
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Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2011, 12:09:27 AM »

You know, the scene where the Knights Radiant gave up has always seemed more than a little bit unusual to me.

In the other visions Dalinar saw, even for other parts of that same vision, things seemed "normal" until the Almighty patched in his extra message.  Humans reacted in the way humans normally react.  We didn't have the complete background, but that's OK; the feeling that it's there never really seemed to waver.  But with that vision---things seemed really, really odd.  Why didn't the Knights Radiant respond to Dalinar's questions?  Why didn't they at least say something to the people they were abandoning?  That whole scene seemed like a nightmare, not a piece of history.  Something happened with that vision, and I'm not sure what, exactly.  I don't think it's a "Odium tampered with the visions," not the same way it happened in Mistborn.  But something seems really, really off.

Quite possibly. But I don't think the whole vision was tampered with. Only the end part. The beginning feels normal enough.
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