Author Topic: knights radient  (Read 5759 times)

Pechvarry

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 05:21:43 PM »
I DO think there's a magic to the oathstone, but I think it's only for the Shin to track the owners (trusting the owners will have enough honor to keep them).  This explains how they intend to reclaim his shardblade if he dies.

Kykeon

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2010, 06:19:13 PM »
Agreed.
It is definetly not like the Oathrod. ;)

Salkara

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 08:05:21 PM »
HAHA wow... I ask a question and it is taken into a debate about szeth
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How about them jets

Glad LT is having a good year. He needed it after we let him go.

As for the Oathstone... perhaps Szeth's honorspren is trapped inside? That'd explain a few things in my head.

Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2010, 10:58:36 PM »
You're forgetting that a connection between man and spren doesn't necessarily mean man and honorspren.  It's been stated that it could be another type of spren, maybe flame, rot, death, wind etc... So if that is the case who know what other kind of powers there could be.  We've seen a surgebinders powers as far as windrunning used by Kaladin and Szeth, the lashing and so on but I don't think we've seen everything yet.  The powers that Kaladin and Szeth are almost unheard of and not much is known.  Only one character had even a slight idea of what Kaladin was doing and he came from a family who was passing the knowledge down through the generations.  As far as Szeth having his powers through his oathstone I'm not so sure about that.  He has never actually had it in his possession, only his masters have.  Now he could be connected to it and have powers that way, but it sounds like that would be a first as every fabrial or magical type item, from shards to lanterns, have had to be touched in some way to be manipulated. 

In fact, I'm working off the assumption that each order of knights has a different type of spren attached to them. But then I started wondering if the type of spren is attached to some other aspect of the magic system.
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Amphictyon

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2010, 11:55:52 PM »
In fact, I'm working off the assumption that each order of knights has a different type of spren attached to them. But then I started wondering if the type of spren is attached to some other aspect of the magic system.

That's what I was thinking as well.  In the 17th shard interview Brandon mentions how to determine who the 10 radiants were by the glyphs at the front of the book.  We can assume surgbinders were one, windrunners another, or one and the same?  We also have soulcasters, who obviously have the power innately, mostly.  Like Shallan and Jasnah.  How about the stormwardens?  They haven't been mentioned much aside from being able to predict highstorms, but what else can they do?  It's my opinion that these branches all had something to do with the knights radiant clans.  I could be off, but it sounds plausible.

jkincaid

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2010, 03:37:51 AM »
Just to clarify I didn't think that Szeth's powers were attained through his Oathstone, just that his honor is somehow kept through his Oathstone.  Or something along those lines.  I was thinking that the honorspren still connects Szeth to his ability to Surgebind even though it hasn't been seen.  Of course that would be assuming that Szeth is working through a spren at all, since we haven't ever seen one.  It appeared as if Szeth abiding by his Oathstone is entirely voluntary, such as at the end of the book when he came close to killing Taravangian (sp?) but didn't in order to retain his honor.   

Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 05:16:36 AM »
I have the theory that the oathstone is a fabrial like object trapping spren in stone instead of gems, created by a stone shaman.

EDIT: Windrunning is a type of surgebinding, just like a square is a type of rectangle.
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Liralyn

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2010, 06:11:17 AM »
Windrunning is a type of surgebinding, just like a square is a type of rectangle.

Squares are also a type of rhombus, but rectangles are not.   ;) --I just gave a test over this in my geometry class today.
But how does that analogy play out for this theory?  It remains to be seen...

Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2010, 06:13:53 AM »
Aristotle's logic at work!  :)
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Andrew the Great

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2010, 07:22:52 AM »
*Cowers in horrified memory of Geometry Tests and all those incredibly useless facts we had to memorize that can now be easily derived*

I like the idea about Szeth's Oathstone being a tracer of sorts. And I can see him placing enough weight in his honor that if someone with lots of influence in Shinovar (ie a stone shaman) were to tell him that the only honor he could achieve in life was through serving the holder of his oathstone, it'd hold him. His oathstone isn't like the Oath Rod in WoT where it compels him to act, IMO.
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happyman

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2010, 12:03:42 AM »

I like the idea about Szeth's Oathstone being a tracer of sorts. And I can see him placing enough weight in his honor that if someone with lots of influence in Shinovar (ie a stone shaman) were to tell him that the only honor he could achieve in life was through serving the holder of his oathstone, it'd hold him. His oathstone isn't like the Oath Rod in WoT where it compels him to act, IMO.

I agree with this.  I think that his behavior is enforced strictly internally, but that when we understand why he believes it so thoroughly, it will shock us.

Note that he believes that if he does not obey the owner of the oathstone, his soul will be destroyed, whereas if he does obey the owner, he will go to hell but still exist as a soul.  It's an odd religion from what little I've picked up of it.
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Cheese Ninja

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2010, 06:17:29 AM »
I DO think there's a magic to the oathstone, but I think it's only for the Shin to track the owners (trusting the owners will have enough honor to keep them).  This explains how they intend to reclaim his shardblade if he dies.

Along these lines, Szeth was able to find his Oathstone when the Parshendi threw it in a ditch by the road after leaving the city in the prologue.  If he wasn't watching them throw it there, he must be able to track it somehow when he needs to.  I don't think he's constantly aware of its location though, judging by his reactions to it in the interludes.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2010, 06:54:42 AM »
What's with the absurd assumption that these powers come from spren?! It is a theory that doesn't hold much water, it is possible but unlikely, so can we please stop taking it as a given? There is no evidence that Szeth has a spren (nor would I call him honorable but rather a coward because he disagrees with what he does but is to afraid to break a cultural taboo, murder is not honorable but you could argue that killing can be, Szeth kills and murders) and there aren't spren from where he comes from. that is a given
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Stormblessed

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2010, 07:26:27 AM »
I don't think its absurd. Fabrials are powered by spren. Syl has the power to bond things, and suddenly Kaladin has that power as well. Spren take Shallan to Shadesmar, and presumably the spren in the goblet asks to be changed.

There is a lot of evidence supporting the powers coming from the spren. Sure, stormlight is needed to fuel the magic, but it is the spren who define the actual magic.

I see no evidence to support that spren have nothing to do with the magic.
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Ari54

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Re: knights radient
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2010, 09:43:52 AM »
You're forgetting that a connection between man and spren doesn't necessarily mean man and honorspren.  It's been stated that it could be another type of spren, maybe flame, rot, death, wind etc... So if that is the case who know what other kind of powers there could be.  We've seen a surgebinders powers as far as windrunning used by Kaladin and Szeth, the lashing and so on but I don't think we've seen everything yet.  The powers that Kaladin and Szeth are almost unheard of and not much is known.  Only one character had even a slight idea of what Kaladin was doing and he came from a family who was passing the knowledge down through the generations.  As far as Szeth having his powers through his oathstone I'm not so sure about that.  He has never actually had it in his possession, only his masters have.  Now he could be connected to it and have powers that way, but it sounds like that would be a first as every fabrial or magical type item, from shards to lanterns, have had to be touched in some way to be manipulated. 

The working theory we've been going on is that each Order has an affinity with a different type or type(s) of Spren.