Author Topic: Gavilier (spoiler)  (Read 2918 times)

VegasDev

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2010, 05:09:55 AM »
Galivier's plate and blade would be very noticable. His plate glistens blue with gold around the edges and wings on his helm. His blade was 6 feet long with a design along the blade like burning flames, silvery metal that gleamed and almost seemed to glow. The plate doesn't appear to show up in text anywhere else (Elhokar:Gold, Sadeas:Red, Amaram:Gold, Adolin:Painted Blue, Dalinar:Slate-Grey, Parshendi:Silver), although it is noted that they paint their armor. Both Amaram and the Parshendi that Dalinar fights have blades shaped like flame (one in motion, the other frozen in metal) but other than that I can't think of any that have a design of burning flames. I would guess that if the armor and blade were recovered, that Elhokar would wear it rather than his own. So that leads me to believe that they have walked off and will show up in a later book.
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

Erunion

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2010, 05:57:29 AM »
The plate is distinctive, but it is painted. Plates natural state is slate-grey (which is how Dalinar keeps it). When you break it apart, as happened to Gavilar's (it was pretty much shattered) it regrows (I assume) slate-grey, and can easily be repainted or have the old design painted over. The plate is likely the plate that Elhokar wears.
You have, however, convinced me about the blade. Elhokar does not use Gavilar's blade. Perhaps the Parshendi took the blade, and the Parshendi shardbearer is the one who has Gavilar's blade?
The crazy Shallan-has-Gavilar's-blade theory does sound cool though. Just the Parshendi's is described as being flame-like, as is Gavilar's.
The Parshendi didn't take credit for the assassination until after the fact, so they likely would have relatively free access to the area during the confusion. Perhaps one of the Parshendi was sent to follow Szeth and confirm the body was dead/take the blade?

Stormblessed

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2010, 08:14:32 AM »
Doubt there is a tradition since Gavilar is the second (third?) king!

This is a good catch as this detail wouldn't have been missed by Brandon...

Gavilar is the first king, I believe. He was the one who reunited the Highprinces. That is why it is so hard for his son, who is the first one to become king without conquest.

As for his shardgear, I doubt Elhokar has it. Brandon seems to imply heavily that Elhokar doesn't have it (why else would he mention Dalinar giving him an extra set, he would of rather given it to Renarin). Who has it though...?

I like the idea of shardplates reforming slate-grey. It could be possible that someone has Gavilar's shardplate, but we would never know as it would be now be painted in different colours.
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wolverinehokie

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2010, 01:39:27 PM »
The reason why I thought Sadeas might have it is because if he had Plate when Szeth was attacking Gavilar, it would have made more sense for Sadeas and Gavilar to face Szeth together and have someone else be the decoy.  Sadeas was one of the first ones to find Gavilar and could have been given the Plate as a reward.  However, I find that unlikely, so maybe the Parshendi and/or Shallon's dad took it.

Stormblessed

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 01:50:11 PM »
Shardplates are bulky and unlike shardblades can't be summoned at will. Saedes is unlikely to have carried his shardplate to Galvinar's rooms (though it would've definitely been in the palace).
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wolverinehokie

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 02:08:59 PM »
But if Gavilar had time to put his on, I think Sadeas would too.  He could have met up with Gavilar even if his Plate wasn't in the same place.

Stormblessed

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 02:18:58 PM »
But if Gavilar had time to put his on, I think Sadeas would too.  He could have met up with Gavilar even if his Plate wasn't in the same place.
I'm assuming Sadeas plate was in his room, and he had to help with Gaviliar's plate. Note that Sadeas was already in Gaviliar's room when the attack began.
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wolverinehokie

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 02:52:15 PM »
Crazy theory time: If Elhokar's Blade and Plate aren't from Gavilar, then Shallan has Gavilar's Blade. Someone from her father's organisation happened on the king's body, stole his Blade while it sat there, and made off with it. Then the Blade made it's way into Shallan's dad's hands, and then Shallan. Heck, maybe Shallan's dad happened on Gavilar's body.

Dalinar and the rest of the Alethi thought the Assassin in White took the Blade, but didn't have the time to steal the Plate.

Does Elhokar's plate match the description of Gavilar's? It might be that Elhokar got his dad's Plate, but no Blade, and when Dalinar gave him the Parshendi Plate and Blade, Elhokar took the Blade and passed on the Plate (to Sadeas?).

I don't know. I can't remember all the descriptions of the Plate, or if Sadeas had his Plate the whole time.


But Shallan's Blade is Gavilar's. If Elhokar doesn't have it.

</crazy theory>

You might be onto something since both are described as "silvery".

zarepath

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 03:13:04 PM »
The real question here is how many different ways we can spell the name "Gavilar."  I've counted four so far in this thread.

On topic, though, I like the Shallan blade theory.  That might actually spoil Book 2 for me, because I can see that being a big deal when she's forced to pull the blade to save someone/something, and everyone's like "Assassin in White!"

Then Sadeas has to step up and be all "I remember the Assassin in White, it wasn't this chick," or, in an even more evil step because ruining Shallan somehow undermines Dalinar, saying "I remember exactly the Assassin in White, and it was DEFINITELY this chick."

Stormblessed

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2010, 03:40:03 PM »
The real question here is how many different ways we can spell the name "Gavilar."  I've counted four so far in this thread.

I like the spelling Galivar.

On topic, though, I like the Shallan blade theory.  That might actually spoil Book 2 for me, because I can see that being a big deal when she's forced to pull the blade to save someone/something, and everyone's like "Assassin in White!"

Then Sadeas has to step up and be all "I remember the Assassin in White, it wasn't this chick," or, in an even more evil step because ruining Shallan somehow undermines Dalinar, saying "I remember exactly the Assassin in White, and it was DEFINITELY this chick."

How old is Shallan? 5 years can be a long time for a young girl, she may have been too young to be the assassin in white when Gavilar dies. Though Shin are suppose to look like children, so he might get away with it. But I doubt Shallan would walk around bald.
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Omelethead

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2010, 04:02:09 PM »
Then Sadeas has to step up and be all "I remember the Assassin in White, it wasn't this chick," or, in an even more evil step because ruining Shallan somehow undermines Dalinar, saying "I remember exactly the Assassin in White, and it was DEFINITELY this chick."

I think it's well known that the Assassin in White was Shin. Sadeas wasn't the only one to see him, and with Szeth's recent exploits and assassinations around the continent, no one is going to suspect Shallan of being the AiW.

Erunion

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2010, 05:42:36 PM »
Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi. Elhokar gave them to the two warriors that were most worthy of the gear. This was likely a political move, to encourage unity in the warcamps and enhance the kingly image of Elhokar, the king being the one who provides honour and security to his subjects. The idea of giving gear to Renarin is a new one. Isn't Renarin 20? If so, he would have been 15 at the time that Dalinar gave out the gear. Add this to his "blood weakness" whatever that may be, and he would be, in the minds of most Alethi, clearly unsuited to bearing shards.
I think it's pretty clear from the text that Elhokar had his own shardblade/shardplate before the war. He was, after all, the king's son.
Think about this, Dalinar and Gavilar conquered all of Alethkar, "defeating their best shardbearers" and subduing their armies. They are likely to have captured several sets of plate and blade. Who better to receive the gear than the king's own son? Considering that he's nearly thirty by now, he would have been in his late teens/early twenties during his father's conquest, prime time to be given shards.
(Adolin's plate and blade are inherited though, right? That's what I seem to remember from his POV's)

It is likely that Elhokar already had plate/blade by the time of his father's death. He would certainly at least have had one or the other.

It seems that we have a few options for what happened to Gavilar's gear. First, the plate:
Sadaes has it,
Elhokar has it,
Or someone else took it.

Next the blade:
The Parshendi Shardbearer has it,
Shallan has it,
Someone else took it.


Of those, I think that Elhokar or Sadaes has the plate, and that the Parshendi Shardbearer has the blade. Their is, of course, one objection to the Parshendi having the blade; Dalinar would likely have recognized it. That then makes Shallan just as likely a candidate for holding the blade. Perhaps her father was in Alethkar as a traveling dignitary, and he was tipped off by the ghostbloods, followed Szeth and took the blade?

wolverinehokie

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2010, 08:46:44 PM »
Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi.

Where are you getting that from?

Omelethead

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2010, 08:56:44 PM »
Stormblessed, Dalinar gives Elhokar two sets of plate and blade captured from the parshendi. Elhokar gave them to the two warriors that were most worthy of the gear. This was likely a political move, to encourage unity in the warcamps and enhance the kingly image of Elhokar, the king being the one who provides honour and security to his subjects. The idea of giving gear to Renarin is a new one. Isn't Renarin 20? If so, he would have been 15 at the time that Dalinar gave out the gear. Add this to his "blood weakness" whatever that may be, and he would be, in the minds of most Alethi, clearly unsuited to bearing shards.

As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up. Dalinar didn't give it to Elhokar, but let him decide who got it, to honor him as king. Elhokar gave it out, we don't know where. The other Highprinces don't bother sending their captured Shards to the king, but give them to their own men, something Dalinar later decided to do with Renarin.

Of those, I think that Elhokar or Sadaes has the plate, and that the Parshendi Shardbearer has the blade. Their is, of course, one objection to the Parshendi having the blade; Dalinar would likely have recognized it. That then makes Shallan just as likely a candidate for holding the blade. Perhaps her father was in Alethkar as a traveling dignitary, and he was tipped off by the ghostbloods, followed Szeth and took the blade?

Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?

wolverinehokie

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Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2010, 09:19:50 PM »
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
Because the Parshendi had Gavilar killed and we don't know where his Plate or Blade are, hence this whole thread.

But the description of the Parshendi Blade, at least the one at the end on pg 903 is:
Quote
His Shardblade was wicked and barbed, like flames frozen into metal.

So since Shallon's blade is "silvery" and so is Gavilar's, that the best evidence so far they could be the same Blade. No other adjectives have been used for multiple Blades except that all Blades besides Szeth's are about 6ft long.

As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up. Dalinar didn't give it to Elhokar, but let him decide who got it, to honor him as king. Elhokar gave it out, we don't know where. The other Highprinces don't bother sending their captured Shards to the king, but give them to their own men, something Dalinar later decided to do with Renarin.

If you had read the quotes I linked earlier in this thread, you'd see that the actual passages related to those things are ambiguous as to if Dalinar gave a set of Blade and Plate to Elhokar to keep or to use.

As Erunion pointed out though, Elhokar could have already had his own set of Plate and Blade before Gavilar died, but just because Dalinar and Gavilar defeated the other Alethi shardbearers does not neccessarily mean they killed the other shardbearers.  They were fighting other Alethi after all with the goal of uniting all the Alethi.  That would be hard to do if they went around taking all the Alethi Blades and Plate.