Author Topic: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)  (Read 5364 times)

schmiddynick

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Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« on: September 30, 2010, 02:41:35 PM »
so i was reading WoK again today and i noticed this particular passage by Wit (Hoid)

“I must. I hope to return. I’ll do so if I’m not killed. Probably will anyway. Apologize to your nephew for me.”

he's remarking that even if he gets killed he'll still most likely come back. is this hoid just being sarcastic and messing around or do you think its a hint at one of the abilities he has besides planet-hopping? like every time he dies he can come back again? it would definitely fit in with Hoid being this amazing uebermensch/superman character

Morsker

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2010, 03:46:58 PM »
"I’ll do so if I’m not killed. Probably will anyway." can be read two ways:

"I'll (probably) do so if not killed."

"I'll do so if I'm not killed. And I probably will even if I am killed."

I read it the first way.

Pechvarry

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2010, 05:33:27 PM »
Shouldn't your first reading require a comma after "will"?   

I always took for granted that it was the latter.  Since my theory is still that Hoid is a shadesmar creature creating physical representations of himself on all the planets he touches, death of the "avatars" would be a small thing, indeed.

brycex99

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 05:56:46 PM »
Pechvarry, that makes a lot of sense.  Hoid doesn't have to "teleport" anywhere because he exists within Shadesmar, aka the Cognitive Realm, aka the one thing that has been stated ties all of the worlds together. I'm definitely a fan of that theory, because it sort of fits in line with Brandon's way of writing and world building as well.  Right now everyone is wondering "How can Hoid teleport to all of these worlds?" and Brandon probably loves the fact that everyone is asking the wrong questions.

Back on topic though, what does "I must" refer to? What must Wit/Hoid do? I can't remember.  At this point, the "I'll do so" in the third sentence could refer to the "I must" or the "I hope to return" part of that passage.  In either case, he will definitely be doing either of those things whether he is killed or not, and I read that sentence the second way. I'm not even sure there is more than one way to read that sentence, it seems a bit of stretch to try and interpret it that first way.

schmiddynick

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 07:37:08 PM »
i really like that idea of Hoid just using shadesmar to get between the worlds. and if he is able to manipulate and access shadesmar with such skill wouldnt it be possible that he'll eventually run into jasnah or shallan as they make one of their trips to shadesmar?

and the "must" he is referring to is leaving the shattered plains, elhokar and all the other nobility this whole conversation was at one of elhokars dinner parties.

Tasslehoof

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 07:52:09 PM »
Hoid using Shadesmar as a link to all of the worlds makes a lot of sense, especially if he is just some sort of spirit that materializes in each world as he sees fit.  I'm excited to see more evidence of something like this in future books.
Now why'd you have to go and push that button?!

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Chosen

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 07:54:53 PM »
Well this quote by Wit seems to corroborate your theory Pechvarry

Quote
“I’ve many.” The man shook Kaladin’s hand. “I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself. Another time, I was named for a rock.”

Perhaps Hoid is an ideal, and any planet that has this ideal he can create a manifestation of himself from shademar.

Kykeon

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 08:12:00 PM »
Blood and ashes, *I*  came into this thread to say that! >:|
*Kykeon glares at Chosen*


:p

Chosen

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 08:14:31 PM »
great minds think alike eh?

brycex99

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 08:47:25 PM »
Well, I wonder what Hoid represents then?  If Hoid is some physical representation of a cognitive ideal that resides in Shadesmar, him leaving could have some serious implications on Roshar.  Maybe if he is "killed" it simply means that a particular ideal no longer exists in the minds of men on that planet?

Just to throw out a random example, if the ideal of honor no longer exists in Roshar, and Hoid represented that ideal, he wouldn't be able to appear back in Roshar until honor returned among the people. Similar to Syl in a way I would think, but I don't think Hoid would classify as a Spren. It might be completely insane to even go down that path, and I could be looking way too into the matter, but it's an interesting thought I think.

That would be why he said he would return even if he was killed... it's kind of a strangely philosophical idea of being "killed" but how else could an ideal be killed?  This entire theory rests on the fact that Hoid is a physical representation of some kind of ideal from the Cognitive Realm though, so if he's human, then this whole post is hogwash :)

Stormblessed

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 10:02:54 AM »
The thought would most likely have to be linked to the shattering of Adonalsium since Hoid was there.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

guy

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2010, 05:29:49 PM »
I think Hoid just lacks the good taste necessary to die, or he could have just been saying that to mess with Dalinar.

schmiddynick

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2010, 06:24:11 PM »
another thing i find kind of curious about hoid is his mention of being named for a rock.
“A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it.”
do you think this could tie into his actual origin and role as some sort of associate with Adonalsium - isn't Adonalsium thought of as a "crystal"
or could it be just one of the aliases he's used on the worlds he's visited, known and otherwise.

Pechvarry

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2010, 07:04:31 PM »
I had mentioned before that the "rock" could be adonalsium, but by fleshing out my idea, I start to feel like I'm writing fanfic:

We already know Hoid can use Shadesmar -- the Cognitive Realm.  If that's because he actually exists in the cognitive realm, then he's actually a thought - a concept.  If he held Adonalsium and made it crappy for holding it, he broke it.  Or at least contributed to its shattering.  So what would he represent?  How about the responsibility for all of its pieces?  Thus, he manifests on every world because they are all his responsibility.

And while all of that seems sound to me, I can't help but read it and think "I'm way off in left field."

Stormblessed

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Re: Hoid's Shard abilities in WoK (minor spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 01:14:52 AM »
Not necessarily. It may just be a guilt thing. He might not be the direct reason, but in his head, he sees himself being a cause of the shattering. This may or may not necessarily be true, but in his head it is.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier