Author Topic: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)  (Read 6539 times)

Stormblessed

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2010, 07:12:28 AM »
I have seen that post, but I don't see how the gemstones are connected to the faces - I assume that's what he means by 'male' and 'female' images. It seems he is basing it off the assumption that Ishar sounds like a male name to him.

The faces are placed to correspond with a certain element. Thus link element with face. Also each element/order name is an abbreviation of a Herald. It thus becomes somewhat easier to work out which 5 are male and which 5 are female.

Also, to me Ishar sounds like Isaac.
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Fireborn

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2010, 09:58:54 AM »
I never said that Shallan and Jasnah do different things.  They do the same thing, but in different ways.  Jasnah lacks ability with organic things, where Shallan, with her obvious connection to blood, would probably develop a specialty for it.

The red gem doesn't really relate to this conversation, the picture is from the wrong page.  I'm pretty sure the other side represents the orders, with their connection to the Herald images.

As far as we know, every other magic type used by the Radiants has only one order, so I'd assume that Soulcasting would only get one unless there is some specific difference between the use of it.  It may be the same difference we get between Shallan and Jasnah, proficiencies with different essences, but it is probably more than that.  Also, the orders seem to each have a different type of spren bonded to them, this may be what separates the two.

Concerning Taln calling himself Stonesinew, this is probably used to say "muscles of stone", thus making the connection with his own essence stronger.  The name is a complete thought, rather than two separate things put together.  It's like saying that someone with a title like Dragonslayer has something to do with dragons and with killing but not necessarily killing dragons.

Did anyone else notice that one of the line connections on the chart is between Amethyst and Ruby?  These two are the gems used for the conjoined fabrials.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

FollowYourMuse

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2010, 09:27:45 PM »

Was each order established by one Herald? In any case, it doesn't necessarily conflict. I don't think we have quite enough information to figure out every detail just yet. 

I agree we do not have enough information, my guess would be that though it might be tied to the Heralds, that it might also be tied to what type of Spren that they are attached to. Which may have been originally determined by the Heralds.
We know that Syl is a binding Spren, and an Honorspren. 


Nahal: Definition
The name Nile (Greek: Neilos) is thought to be ultimately derived from the Semitic Nahal meaning "river" from which the Hebrew nachal is derived
-to lead or guide to a watering place, bring to a place of rest, refresh
-carry, feed, guide, lead gently, on
-A primitive root; properly, to run with a sparkle, i.e. Flow; hence (transitively), to conduct, and (by inference) to protect, sustain -- carry, feed, guide, lead (gently, on).


Heb. nahal, in winter a "torrent," in summer a "wady" or
        valley (Gen. 32:23; Deut. 2:24; 3:16; Isa. 30:28; Lam. 2:18;
        Ezek. 47:9).
Nahar, a "river" continuous and full, a perennial stream,
        as the Jordan, the Euphrates (Gen. 2:10; 15:18; Deut. 1:7; Ps.
        66:6; Ezek. 10:15).

http://tinyurl.com/2fp292a

The Arab root nahal has the meaning of quenching ones thirst. the noun manhal - a watering place in the desert.

Terez

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2010, 09:35:09 PM »
As far as we know, every other magic type used by the Radiants has only one order

I am not aware of any evidence that suggests this. Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?

@FollowYourMuse - Isn't it Nahel? In any case, it looks like you probably got the source right - 'Nahel' doesn't bring up much.

FollowYourMuse

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2010, 03:09:03 AM »

@FollowYourMuse - Isn't it Nahel? In any case, it looks like you probably got the source right - 'Nahel' doesn't bring up much.

I couldnt find much on Nahel either,  but I wouldnt think it would be an exact thing anyway

Fireborn

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2010, 06:53:54 AM »
Well, seems I was wrong, look at that.

If you go to 17th Shard  they have the interview with Brandon up.  He says that each order has a connection to TWO magic systems.  On the inside cover the big circles are orders and the smaller circles are magic systems.  This is BRILLIANT.  I've never been more pleased to be wrong.
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Terez

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2010, 06:56:51 AM »
Well, seems I was wrong, look at that.

If you go to 17th Shard  they have the interview with Brandon up.  He says that each order has a connection to TWO magic systems.

Yeah, that's what we were saying earlier.

Quote from: Fireborn
On the inside cover the big circles are orders and the smaller circles are magic systems.

That is good to know. 

Fireborn

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2010, 06:58:23 AM »
Well, that was one idea of many we had.  It's nice to have confirmation, though.
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elsyan

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2010, 02:01:25 PM »
The picture above is of the back cover not the front cover.  I think the back cover may correspond to the voidbringers as opposed to the heralds!  Notice how the symbols don't "quite" match up...

Take a look here.  I've mapped the heralds with their colors and symbols.  I'm pretty sure they are right as the correspond to all information we have including the decals of the symbols available from Brandon's website.

I then guessed and put in soulcasting, given that we know Jasnah and Shallan can both do it, differently.

http://stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/File:Heralds.jpg

Morsker

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2010, 05:19:08 PM »
An interesting difference between the front and back covers is that the "big two" in the middle have lines going to little circles in the front one, but not in the back one.

That changes my motive for seeing the middle two as Soulcasting. I thought of Soulcasting as being something connected to everything, instead of connected to 2 powers, which is sort of what's going on in the back cover. But by the front cover, the middle two aren't so special and are still connected to 2 powers each like everything else.

Fireborn

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2010, 08:39:55 PM »
Well, we know that only two orders had inherent Soulcasting ability.  Also, we can expect that one of those is the Garnet, since that's what Shallan's focus seemse to be.  I'd be inclined to say Smokestone as the other one because of Jasnah, but none of the small circles connect to both Garnet and Smokestone.  But, interestingly enough, there is a line connecting the two, it just doesn't connect to one of the small circles.  What's the connection there?
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elsyan

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2010, 12:05:12 PM »
Well, we know that only two orders had inherent Soulcasting ability.  Also, we can expect that one of those is the Garnet, since that's what Shallan's focus seemse to be.  I'd be inclined to say Smokestone as the other one because of Jasnah, but none of the small circles connect to both Garnet and Smokestone.  But, interestingly enough, there is a line connecting the two, it just doesn't connect to one of the small circles.  What's the connection there?

Jasnah's herald / order is Palah / Emerald.  Both because Palah appears in Jasnah's chapters (see the thread on Heralds in chapter titles) and because Palah is Learned/Giving which clearly describes Jasnah.  In another thread Peter points out that the attributes for Nan and Palah are wrong and are swapped in the ars arcanum.

There *is* a small circle connecting garnet and emerald which I highlighted in my graphic above as soulcasting.

Fireborn

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2010, 05:54:31 PM »
I was looking at the epigraphs and Herald icons yesterday and saw that, yes, Palah shows up much more than Nan in Jasnah's chapters, so I'm inclined to agree.

But then what's the connection between Garnet and Smokestone?  The only thing I have to compare it with is the line between Amethyst and Ruby.  This connection has a possible reason; Ruby and Amethyst are the two gems used to make Pairing fabrials (Ruby as Conjoiners and Amethyst as Reversers).  So does it have something to do with fabrials?

Also, we know that one of the Windunner systems is Lashings, but what other powers do honorspren grant that we're not aware of?
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Cheese Ninja

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2010, 07:19:50 PM »
Could it just be the body/speed/agility strengthening effect that they get from holding stormlight?  Doesn't really seem to have a system to it though, so maybe not.

Morsker

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Re: Spren - (Major Spoilers TWoK)
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2010, 08:16:22 PM »
Also, we know that one of the Windunner systems is Lashings, but what other powers do honorspren grant that we're not aware of?
The Lashings may not be a single system, since the Full Lashing is different and uses adhesion instead of gravity. The question then is why Windrunners can only do these three things, instead of having a whole variety of skills using either power.