Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*

[Timemaster11]

The chapter where Elhokar mentions seeing the spren (Ch. 58) does have the Zircon herald as one of the two Heralds.  Whether this choice was due to Elhokar or not is another matter entirely.

It is also possible that some of the choices of Herald images signify the qualities being displayed in that chapter, and not just the powers someone has. 

It would be nice to find out if Brandon Sanderson was ever random on the images chosen, if he put a lot of thought into all of the images, or only put a lot of thought into some of them.

[ROSHtafARian]

Wow, thanks Peter.  That makes a huge difference, and makes me even more convinced that Jasnah is associated with Palah.  Learned/giving fits her a hell of a lot more than Just/Confident.

[Stormblessed]

I haven't got the front cover symbols, so can anyone tell me, the herald that appears in chapter 72, would that be the herald for palash (symbolised by the emerald)?

[Timemaster11]

Yes, she does appear on Ch. 72.  The Herald for Palah is the one with hair going in every which direction.  Was there something in Ch. 72 that you noticed that would especially suggest her?

For reference: (using abbreviations)
1)Jes=king image
2)Nan=hooded man
3)Chach=woman with something akin to a helmet
4)Vev=hooded woman
5)Palah=woman with hair going all directions
6)Shash=woman with large jewel on forehead
7)Betab=woman with band around head, over hair
8)Kak=man with uncovered hair, long bangs
9)Tanat=helmed man
10)Ishi=old man with long beard

[Stormblessed]

It was the chapter that Jasnah admits she can soulcast without a soulcaster. My reasoning is that such an important admission by Jasnah must be accompanied with the Herald that established her order. So my theory is that she is part of the palah order, which makes sense as she is learned. EDIT: Palah also appears in chapter 5 when we first meet Jasnah and see her soulcast.

I have noticed that the primary attribute for an essence is the characteristic which defines a person that is in the order. E.g. Shallan is creative, Dalinar is a leader and Jasnah is learned.

The second attribute is usually what the bonded spren 'feeds on' in order to allow that person to use their powers. E.g. Shallan must give truth to the honesty spren and Dalinar started glowing after protecting his nephew and king.

I then wonder (assuming im not horribly wrong) what sort of spren would be synonymous with giving and what Jasnah would have to give up in order to soulcast.

[ROSHtafARian]

Giftspren or sacrificespren?  If Shallan has to admit a truth to a truth or honesty spren, and Kaladin has to act with honor, I would think that the spren powering Jasnah would have to be attracted to some kind of selflessness.  Like maybe to Soulcast she has to give a bit of knowledge precious to her.

Especially if Jasnah's interests in academia and learning and increasing her knowledge was not for personal gain or status (something that definitely seems in keeping with her character) but for the good of mankind.  She's trying to find the truth about the Voidbringers, to protect humanity, discover who killed her father and why the Parshendi are now so hostile to humans...all things that don't benefit her personally, but she seeks to learn in order to give that knowledge to help everyone.  A givingspren sounds about right to me.

[guy]

I still dont see why Jasnah cant just have the same spren as Shallan does, she could have to tell a truth as well, she does after all look for truth in history, and she seems very honest to herself and others.  also do the things you say to the spren need to actually be true, or do you just have to believe it?  and can you use them as a sort of magic eight ball?

[FollowYourMuse]

I still dont see why Jasnah cant just have the same spren as Shallan does, she could have to tell a truth as well, she does after all look for truth in history, and she seems very honest to herself and others.  also do the things you say to the spren need to actually be true, or do you just have to believe it?  and can you use them as a sort of magic eight ball?

I think just by thinking of the series, and that we know there are 10 orders of the knights Radiant, that it would not make sence for 2 of the main POV charachters to be of the same order.

I think Jasnah's coment  could point to this, that she assumes Shallan is the same , of the Same order,  but realizes that she isnt.

Jasnah frowned, taking the image. "You see beings like this? In Shadesmar?"
...
Jasnah held up a hand. "These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do." She tapped the desk softly. "Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I believe. I had assumed that you... But no, that obviously wouldn't make sense. I see now."

[Galavantes]

Great now we have to analyze every single chapter.....starting with chapter 51!  We're fairly sure at this point that Kaladin is associated with Jes. So why is chapter 51 headed with nothing but the image for the 2nd Herald? The unknown Herald of Nan? Hmmm

[Stormblessed]

Great now we have to analyze every single chapter.....starting with chapter 51!  We're fairly sure at this point that Kaladin is associated with Jes. So why is chapter 51 headed with nothing but the image for the 2nd Herald? The unknown Herald of Nan? Hmmm

Actually, alot of Kaladin's chapters have Taln at the start. More so than Jezrien.

[Galavantes]

Great now we have to analyze every single chapter.....starting with chapter 51!  We're fairly sure at this point that Kaladin is associated with Jes. So why is chapter 51 headed with nothing but the image for the 2nd Herald? The unknown Herald of Nan? Hmmm

Actually, alot of Kaladin's chapters have Taln at the start. More so than Jezrien.

That's my point, we have to look at all of them now and figure out why.
And several chapters have more than one represented. I think Protecting/Leading fits Kal far more than Dependable/Resourceful, despite him being also being the latter.

[Stormblessed]

Yes I have been wondering the same thing. I think the key to understanding which order Kaladin is depends on which divine attribute closely resembles honour, for Kaladin's spren is an honourspren.

[Timemaster11]

Another common image for Kaladin is Vev, with the attributes Loving/Healing.  Almost all of Kaladin's past scenes have her, as well as many of his present ones.  She always seems to be in the chapter heading when Kaladin is trying to heal someone, or when his old surgeon side comes out.

Maybe sometimes a Herald image was chosen to match a quality or qualities being displayed in that chapter, which, in Kaladin's case, was healing.

Also, the most telling image for Kaladin's order specifically would have been the chapter "WORDS", where he says the Second Ideal specific and unique to his Radiant Order.  In that chapter, it is Jezrien's image alone that appears, linking Kaladin with the 1st order and the attributes Protecting/Leading.  (In fact, the words "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves" suggests the attribute of protecting for Kaladin's order.)
Thus, I would highly suspect that Kaladin is of the 1st order.

Of course, the question now is, what common thread runs through those Kaladin chapters where Talenel's image appears?  (as healing runs through most of the Vev chapters)

[Stormblessed]

I believe that she may be also connected to Kaladin's Dad, who is more fitted for the order of Vev than Kaladin is, though in the old days he was more suited to Vev as well, so it can go wither way. Maybe people can change orders as they change as a person.

[guy]

I think just by thinking of the series, and that we know there are 10 orders of the knights Radiant, that it would not make sence for 2 of the main POV charachters to be of the same order.

so we can reasonably assume that Szeth and Kaladin are in different orders?  the ars arcanum does mention that windrunners used two orders of surgebinding