Author Topic: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)  (Read 2290 times)

ErikHolmes

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 394
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« on: September 25, 2010, 05:46:53 AM »
I finally finished WoK's. What a great book!

I had a lot of thoughts/questions/ideas after reading it. I'm sure some of these have been gone over before, but who knows, maybe I noticed something that hasn't been spoken about yet...

1. Shallan possesses a Shardblade. She used it to kill her father, cutting up the Soulcaster he possessed during the fight, which is why the chain and crystal were cut.

2. The Death visions come form Talenel while he was suffering in agony in that damnation place. But not all of them, I think a few of those are just ones Brandon threw in there to throw us off. They are just the random things people said as they died that ended up getting recorded too.

3. I'm thinking that Dalinars gift from the old magic was either to make Navani love him or to become the Blackthorn.

4. I really want to know what this paragraph is hinting at:

Quote
Holding his breath, he clung to the Stormlight. He could still feel it leaking out. Stormlight could be held for only a short time, a few minutes at most. It leaked away, the human body too porous a container. He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn’t. His honor demanded that they did.
-Szeth, Prologue

5. Someone named Thaidakar leads the Ghostbloods and he and the previous king were in some sort of conflict, Gavilar thought he was the one that had sent Szeth.

6. Someone named Restares leads another group who King Gavilar was also in conflict with, Amaram works with or for him. Restares convinced Amaram to take Kaladin's Shards.

7. The Radiants never betrayed anyone. After the last desolation they grew tired of pointless battles for greed and power and abandoned their armor. Those who took up their armor afterward were mistaken for Radiants and are the source of their bad reputation/legends of betrayal.

8. The face Kaladin saw during the Highstorm was the Stormfather.

9. Highstorms are the source of most magic on the world and Spren are sort of the imbodiments of that magic. That's why there are no spren in Shin.

10. Is it just me or are those Aons in the picture of the Shattered Plains at the start of part two? Near the top, within the round shapes.

11. Surgebinding seems just like Allomancy to me except with stormlight as a focus/power source instead of metals. Lashings are this worlds version of pushing and pulling on metals and when filled with stormlight a surgebinder has the strength, speed and healing powers of a mistborn.

12. I thought it was very interesting that each of those cities had a glyph associated with them. It reminds me of Elantris. Could each of the cities be a focus for the different powers out there, like Elantris is for the Dor?
Who the hell is interrupting my Kung Fu!

Stormblessed

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 380
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 02:07:56 PM »
1, 2, 3, 8  are being discussed in much detail on other posts, so i'll ignore them for know.

For point 9, it is obvious that a lot of the magic is fuelled by stormlight, and stormlight comes from highstorms. The spren may be creatures from shadesmar that allow the power of stormlight to be tapped.

Point 4, I have no idea, but it somehow connects being truthless with the power of surgebinding and the vorin theology.

10: I think they are warcamps, not glyphs. They dont look like aons to me.

12: I think it is along the same lines. The cities are based on symmetry, and symmetry seems to be a big issue in the stormlight archive

5: I think King Taravangian leads the ghostbloods, but Thaidakar obviously has an important position in their society.

7: I agree there. They obviously went from heroes and demi-gods at the last desolation to be used to fight petty battles between kings, so they rebelled by giving up on their oaths. Coincidently, oath breaking seems to be a major theme in this series.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 03:18:04 PM »
There are few theories on 3. My favorite is that his curse was losing his memories of his wife. Or, that he actually asked for those memories to be taken away.

For four, I think that Szeth learned Surgebinding and got a Shardblade because he believed the Voidbringers were coming back, and he would be needed to stop them. However, since the Shin culture looks down on warriors, he was punished for seeking such destructive weapons. Therefore, he holds on to them, because he thinks they're necessary, but his people rejected him for it.

For seven... I'm not sure. One of the historical records in Jasnah's notes mentions rising taxes in Urithiru, which it says are a sign that "the Radiant's true nature was beginning to show". I think it's possible that the Radiants were corrupted by Odium.

8. Keep in mind that the Stormfather is Jezrien. It's certainly possible, but it depends a lot on what he's been up to since abandoning the Oathpact.
11. I think that the enhanced strength/speed/vitality is just part of the power of Adonalsium, since it's shared by Elantrians and the Returned.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Batchman

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Can I get you some water?
    • View Profile
    • Official Gordon Korman Web Site
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2010, 06:07:52 PM »
Very odd idea that just popped into mind.

What if his gift was that his wife somehow returned.

And the curse is that he couldn't remember her.

guy

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 113
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 06:13:44 PM »
Very odd idea that just popped into mind.

What if his gift was that his wife somehow returned.

And the curse is that he couldn't remember her.
that would suck way bad. as for 9. if that was true, then how would Szeth learn surgbinding? and WOK talks about how people can take dun spheres to a bank and they can recharge them for you, which would imply that there are other ways to get stormlight

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 10:33:38 PM »
Very odd idea that just popped into mind.

What if his gift was that his wife somehow returned.

And the curse is that he couldn't remember her.
that would suck way bad. as for 9. if that was true, then how would Szeth learn surgbinding? and WOK talks about how people can take dun spheres to a bank and they can recharge them for you, which would imply that there are other ways to get stormlight

They don't recharge them.  They trade them for infused spheres, which means they (a) check if your spheres are legit, (b) give you infused ones in exchange for the dun ones (c) infuse the spheres themselves during the next highstorm.
Nature hates being reified.

Tasslehoof

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 11:10:52 PM »
1.  I really don't think that likely... She never, ever, even hinted at possessing a shardblade.  Even though she kept the fact that she killed her father a secret for that long, I just don't think that someone would go so far out of the way to steal a "real" Soulcaster when they themselves owned a shardblade.  Even if you don't sell your shardblade, I feel like there are a lot of ways to make money just having it.

2.  I thought some of them were from Taln also.

3.  I'm not sure what you mean by "become the Blackthorn", be a good fighter?  Literally be called the Blackthorn?  I feel like he was already an amazing fighter, considering one of his sons is just as good as him.  His curse was most likely that he can't remember his wife, although that always seemed a little too obvious to me.

4.  Yeah, I'm not really sure.  I think thats one of the most talked about lines from the book, and it happens in the prologue :p

7.  I kind of thought this also, especially how as soon as the Radiants drop their Shardplate/Blades, and Dalinar follows them, the soldiers literally start killing each other over the blades.  It shows that the people who inherited the weapons/armor were not of the same virtues  as the Radiants themselves.

8.  Likely, although once again that seemed almost too obvious too :p

9.  There may be no Spren in Shinovar, but I don't remember ever hearing/seeing that there was no "magic" there either.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   __
10.  No.  Aons look all have a basic similarity, I don't have my book on me, but I think it resembles this    *|.  None of those even look similar to that.  Although, there is a reoccurring theme that geometry is important in many of the cities, I don't think it pertains to warcamps that were originally very temporary in nature.  I think its Navoni that says Sadeas' street layout is very reckless, and non-geometric.  I do agree though that the warcamps look like something, its probably just convenient ways to lay it out.

11.  There are very few fantasy books/stories where one form of, or all of the magical beings possess extra strength, agility, or healing powers.  Its just a theme that people often use because those 3 abilities are extremely valuable in nearly every situation I can think of.  Lashings are similar to pushing and pulling, but its just Brandon's way of having characters who can control gravity without really just flying.  It makes it more exciting, and makes you think about how the characters perform some of their maneuvers.  Its much more impressive to me when people can jump and Lash different objects, and themselves in different directions all at the same time, rather than just flying around.

12.  Like I said, the geometry obviously has significance, we just aren't sure exactly how far it goes yet.  I'm sure we'll find out in the next novels, but its definitely interesting to think about right now.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 04:43:47 PM by Tasslehoof »
Now why'd you have to go and push that button?!

- Famous Words of Doom.

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 11:21:05 PM »
1.  I really don't think that likely... She never, ever, even hinted at possessing a shardblade.  Even though she kept the fact that she killed her father a secret for that long, I just don't think that someone would go so far out of the way to steal a "real" Soulcaster when they themselves owned a shardblade.  Even if you don't sell your shardblade, I feel like there are a lot of ways to make money just having it.

You've got the hang of most of these questions, but I'm afraid this point isn't strictly accurate.  The quotes pass quickly in a first reading (I missed them too), but once you know what you're looking for, it's obvious.  Shallan totally has a Shardblade, and she almost certainly got it from her father after killing him.

I don't have quotes with me, but there is an older thread about Shallan at the end of WoK.   Here it is.
Nature hates being reified.

guy

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 113
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 07:45:00 PM »
although it does make one wonder why she  didnt just sell her shardblade, it is said repeatedly that peo;e will do just about anything for a shardblade

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 09:34:21 PM »
although it does make one wonder why she  didnt just sell her shardblade, it is said repeatedly that peo;e will do just about anything for a shardblade
How would you approach someone about that when you had a Shardblade that no one knew about, and that was quite possibly obtained by murdering your father?

Besides, if she tried to sell it, she might just get killed and have the blade stolen.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

VegasDev

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 395
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 09:51:04 PM »
They wouldn't have been able to sell the shardblade because her father had made enemies with many of the people that could afford to pay them enough to save the family. Even mentioning that they had a blade to sell would throw up a huge red flag that they were desperate for money and just make the family even more of a target. Shallan can't let go of the weapon because one of her brothers would probably attempt to gamble it away and the other displays serial killer traits. Hence, her burden to carry.
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

ErikHolmes

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 394
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 10:45:34 PM »
I really think that Shallan had the Shardblade before she killed her father and that she used it to kill him. I just wonder where she got it. I wonder if she came across the kings shardblade after Szeth killed him.
Who the hell is interrupting my Kung Fu!

VegasDev

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 395
  • Fell Points: 1
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 11:10:03 PM »
She said it was the fruit of her most heinous act or something along those lines and that act is probably killing her own father since she dwells on it so much. She drew her father (most likely) laying dead in a pool of blood. Since shardblades just kind of pass through living tissue without leaving a mark, for her to have killed her father with the blade and leave blood means she would have had to kill him with the blade but continue swinging at a dead body, although someone pointed out that his heart wouldn't have been beating and pumping blood out of the body so there may not be a pool. More likely, she killed her father with a regular blade, upon death his shardblade appeared and she took it in a panic to prevent her brothers or anyone else from getting it.
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

Cheese Ninja

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 05:12:33 AM »
I wonder how long it will be until we truly understand the relationship between spren and highstorms.  It's notable that Shinovar has a lack of both.  No one else seems to be mentioning "crem" though.  It's a bit a like clay, somewhat poisonous if drunk with the water, and if left alone will harden to stone.  I find it a little bit strange for it to be coming out of the sky.  I think Odium may have hijacked the Origin for his own means, there's a brief mention of highstorms becoming more powerful lately, and the Almighty's vision of the Everstorm came from the Origin as well.

In a nutshell, the discussion about Shallan's shardblade is trying to reconcile two different things.: 1) Since her father's Soulcaster was in an inside pocket of his coat, and was sheared through (a chain and a gem setting), he was likely cut with a shardblade while wearing it.  2)Shallan refers to the shardblade as the fruit of her most heinous sin.  There's a few theories that satisfy both criteria, but we don't have enough information for something concrete.

I honestly don't think Taravangian is part of the ghostbloods.  Kabsal's attempt on Jasnah's life was pointless if you consider that Taravangian's staff makes all of her meals, and that he is sharp enough to hide a huge hospital of death in the middle of his palace.  There's just no need for a clumsy assassin, if he really wanted to kill Jasnah, he could have had it done easily, without it being traced to him.  Taravangian is either part of his own group, or associated with Restares.

Dalinar's boon and curse:  I think the curse was the loss of memory of his wife.  I don't think we've had any big hints about the boon.  Az's brief talk about his family and their curses (seeing the world upside down, numb hands) and boons (a bolt of cloth) gave me the impression that regardless of what the boon is, the curse is something that sticks with you for the rest of your life.

Hoids comment at the end that there was a good reason the Alethi put light-eyed people in charge of their society was interesting too.  Are light eyes families originally descended from Radiants?  I can't remember if all the Radiants were light-eyed or not...

Stormblessed

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 380
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Random Thoughts after reading (Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 05:31:50 AM »
Normally having a shardblade automatically made you a light eyes. But as we can see from Szeth, this is not always the case. Szeth's eyes only change colour when he summons the blade. And Taln's eyes seem to be permanently dark. Yet I seem to recall a part (I think it is of Dalinar's vision of the radiants giving up their swords and armour) where the radients eyes were almost white.

So it is really hard to work out what is happening with the lighteyes.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier