Author Topic: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***  (Read 13560 times)

Munin

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2010, 01:17:14 PM »
Cognitive has to do with thought, so the cognitive realm would be the realm of the mind.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

happyman

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Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2010, 10:37:45 PM »
That makes a lot of sense about them making their own humans that are based off what they know (and were) as opposed to inventing humans fresh. 

Though I was still led to believe through the Mistborn trilogy that Ruin and Preservation were responsible for the circle of life of the planet.  In a very mythology-like "and that's why this happens" sort of way, I thought things were born and lived because of Preservation and decayed and withered due to Ruin's touch, with the certain knowledge that without Ruin, Preservation would eventually become self-defeating.  If this is true, it means the other worlds need a reason to have a cohesive physics structure.

Shards don't always come in pairs. For instance, Roshar had 3 shards, (2 now that the Almighty is dead) and as far as we know Warbreaker features only Endowment.

While I'm going to readily embrace what we know (what you said above) as the easiest and most straightforward solution, I'm not going to discount the possibility that we don't know everything.  For example, 2 could've been responsible for establishing Roshar, and then Odium could've swooped in and said "I want this one!"  Likewise, Endowment could have a counterpart whose simply been absent for one reason or another since the founding of the Warbreaker planet (I can never remember the name!).  Of course, if Endowment had a counterpart, it would likely be something that gives nothing -- not even destruction.  So perhaps it simply has no magic system to share or even influence on the land -- a dud shard.

Just one correction:  The three that would have been involved with Roshar would have been *before* Odium showed up.  At least, that's the simplest reading of the evidence.
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hubay

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2010, 11:29:02 PM »
Unfortunately, I'm not sure this is the thread that should've been stickied.   Since it is, at some point I'll probably edit the main post or add a new post of common info.  The big one being "YES, ELANTRIS, MISTBORN TRILOGY, WARBREAKER, AND THE STORMLIGHT ARCHIVES ARE ALL IN THE SAME UNIVERSE."

there's an older thread that explains all the hoid sightings, if I remember correctly. You could mine that for essential info. Otherwise one of us could build a thread that gives a basic "welcome to the cosmere" sort of explanation, and re-petition 'Nessa. It's not a bad thread to sticky really, even though the first post doesn't explain everything right away, it stops people from making new posts, which is the whole idea behind a sticky.

Brenna

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2010, 06:09:17 AM »
If you build a different "Welcome to the cosmere" post, and want it stickied, just let me know and I'd be happy to do so. :)

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Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2010, 08:54:36 AM »
That makes a lot of sense about them making their own humans that are based off what they know (and were) as opposed to inventing humans fresh. 

Though I was still led to believe through the Mistborn trilogy that Ruin and Preservation were responsible for the circle of life of the planet.  In a very mythology-like "and that's why this happens" sort of way, I thought things were born and lived because of Preservation and decayed and withered due to Ruin's touch, with the certain knowledge that without Ruin, Preservation would eventually become self-defeating.  If this is true, it means the other worlds need a reason to have a cohesive physics structure.

Shards don't always come in pairs. For instance, Roshar had 3 shards, (2 now that the Almighty is dead) and as far as we know Warbreaker features only Endowment.

While I'm going to readily embrace what we know (what you said above) as the easiest and most straightforward solution, I'm not going to discount the possibility that we don't know everything.  For example, 2 could've been responsible for establishing Roshar, and then Odium could've swooped in and said "I want this one!"  Likewise, Endowment could have a counterpart whose simply been absent for one reason or another since the founding of the Warbreaker planet (I can never remember the name!).  Of course, if Endowment had a counterpart, it would likely be something that gives nothing -- not even destruction.  So perhaps it simply has no magic system to share or even influence on the land -- a dud shard.

Just one correction:  The three that would have been involved with Roshar would have been *before* Odium showed up.  At least, that's the simplest reading of the evidence.

I haven't been on TWG for a while, but I was pretty darn sure Brandon said there were three Shards on Roshar. If he said that, that surely includes Odium.

EDIT: I have looked in one of my emails. It confirms that there are three. Like so:

Quote
18. How many Shards have existed on Roshar?

ANSWER: Three

That pretty much covers it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 08:58:10 AM by Chaos2651 »
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

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brycex99

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2010, 03:02:11 AM »
Even if there are 3 shards unique to Roshar, considering what we know about Odium and his interaction in other worlds, we may see more than 3 shards in action.  So, at this point I assume Odium is one of the shards that Brandon was speaking about, but that doesn't necessarily have to be true.  Odium is different somehow than others we have seen so far, because it has taken an interest in at least 2 worlds.

Amphictyon

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2010, 10:36:52 PM »
This all raises a couple questions I haven't seen answered anywhere here.  People are saying that the shards created humans because it's probable that humans are "what they know/knew." So now this means that there was a planet that try originated from, a home planet, or original planet.  Which planet would that be?  One of the worlds that Brandon Sanderson has written about?  Or should we assume that there's an unknown planet out there that he hasn't written about but is considered the planet where life originated from?

Now in regards to Roshar, I might be remembering wrong, but I remember the number 17, in regards to the Desolations or the Voidbringers?  Is that right?  I do for sure remember different names regarding the desolations with Odium being the final Desolation.  If Odium is being considered one of these shards what of these other names mentioned?  I don't have my book with me to give examples as I'm writing from my phone, but I believe proof was in a few of the transcriptions before each chapter.

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2010, 07:40:07 PM »
I can't speak for the second half of your post, but for the first half:

For all we know, that first planet was adonalsium itself.  Maybe Adonalsium is the fabric of our universe exploding into shards which spun out new humans and new universes.  Who knows what Brandon's thinking.  The point I'm apparently trying to make is: that planet/plane/universe of the past doesn't have to exist any longer.  In fact, it likely doesn't.  I really don't think it's possible that any of the known planets are "ground zero", but Roshar seems the most feasible (to me).


Stormblessed

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2010, 03:11:21 AM »
It almost sounds like the Big Bang.  :P
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Pechvarry

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2010, 08:31:35 PM »
It's honestly what I've been seeing it as: a divine take on the Big Bang.

Amphictyon

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2010, 03:40:16 AM »
A divine take on the Big Bang where the stars are trying to destroy/protect humanity?  It's interesting. :)

Melriken

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2011, 04:09:04 AM »
Now in regards to Roshar, I might be remembering wrong, but I remember the number 17, in regards to the Desolations or the Voidbringers?  Is that right?  I do for sure remember different names regarding the desolations with Odium being the final Desolation.  If Odium is being considered one of these shards what of these other names mentioned?  I don't have my book with me to give examples as I'm writing from my phone, but I believe proof was in a few of the transcriptions before each chapter.
The Chapter Epitaphs from Chapter 2 are what you are thinking of, they are a letter we assume is from Hoid, and is being sent to either The Almighty (unlikely) or Cultivation (the other shard (god) on Roshar)

Quote from:
12 - Old Friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.
13 - I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.
14 - let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.
15 - You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completley.
16 - Seven and a half years ago
17 - Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:
18 - Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I have ever met.
19 - He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
20 - Seven years ago
21 - One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
22 - In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
23 - You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.
24 - Neither point makes the things I have written to you here untrue.
25 - Seven years ago
26 - I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling of what to do with me should they actually catch me.
27 - If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.
28 - For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask you again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I've never begged you for something before, old friend.
I do so now.

happyman

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2011, 12:29:47 AM »
Now in regards to Roshar, I might be remembering wrong, but I remember the number 17, in regards to the Desolations or the Voidbringers?  Is that right?  I do for sure remember different names regarding the desolations with Odium being the final Desolation.  If Odium is being considered one of these shards what of these other names mentioned?  I don't have my book with me to give examples as I'm writing from my phone, but I believe proof was in a few of the transcriptions before each chapter.
The Chapter Epitaphs from Chapter 2 are what you are thinking of, they are a letter we assume is from Hoid, and is being sent to either The Almighty (unlikely) or Cultivation (the other shard (god) on Roshar)

Quote from:
12 - Old Friend, I hope this missive finds you well. Though, as you are now essentially immortal, I would guess that wellness on your part is something of a given.
13 - I realize that you are probably still angry. That is pleasant to know. Much as your perpetual health, I have come to rely upon your dissatisfaction with me. It is one of the cosmere's great constants, I should think.
14 - let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.
15 - You do not agree with my quest. I understand that, so much as it is possible to understand someone with whom I disagree so completley.
16 - Seven and a half years ago
17 - Might I be quite frank? Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason:
18 - Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I have ever met.
19 - He holds the most frightening and terrible of all of the shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
20 - Seven years ago
21 - One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.
22 - In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse.
23 - You have accused me of arrogance in my quest. You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin. Both accusations are true.
24 - Neither point makes the things I have written to you here untrue.
25 - Seven years ago
26 - I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling of what to do with me should they actually catch me.
27 - If anything I have said makes a glimmer of sense to you, I trust that you'll call them off. Or maybe you could astound me and ask them to do something productive for once.
28 - For I have never been dedicated to a more important purpose, and the very pillars of the sky will shake with the results of our war here. I ask you again. Support me. Do not stand aside and let disaster consume more lives. I've never begged you for something before, old friend.
I do so now.

For the record, there is a third theory that the recipient of the letter is somebody that has never been seen in the published works.  This is my stance, for lots of reasons.  It is claimed by some that Brandon's unpublished works have some much better candidates.
Nature hates being reified.

Melriken

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2011, 05:57:16 AM »
For the record, there is a third theory that the recipient of the letter is somebody that has never been seen in the published works.  This is my stance, for lots of reasons.  It is claimed by some that Brandon's unpublished works have some much better candidates.
Yes, I hadn't intended to state it the way I did. I had intended to say it more along the lines of "and is likely being sent to either X or Y". 

I think an argument could be made that Sazed may be the recipient of the letter given that the recipient needs to be someone who has taken up a Shard recently. And there are several shards we know nothing of, any one of which could be the recipient.

happyman

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Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2011, 07:38:51 PM »
For the record, there is a third theory that the recipient of the letter is somebody that has never been seen in the published works.  This is my stance, for lots of reasons.  It is claimed by some that Brandon's unpublished works have some much better candidates.
Yes, I hadn't intended to state it the way I did. I had intended to say it more along the lines of "and is likely being sent to either X or Y". 

I think an argument could be made that Sazed may be the recipient of the letter given that the recipient needs to be someone who has taken up a Shard recently. And there are several shards we know nothing of, any one of which could be the recipient.

The person who the letter is addressed to is functionally immortal.  That doesn't mean they picked up a shard recently.  There are probably other ways to become immortal in the Cosmere.  I would actually put down money against the recipient holding a Shard.
Nature hates being reified.