Author Topic: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***  (Read 12202 times)

Pechvarry

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« on: September 13, 2010, 09:52:53 PM »
Howdy.  After months of lurking, I finally found out why it wasn't letting me register an account and rectified it.  So before I start making 13 new topics/day on ridiculous theories, I'd like to ask a couple questions:

A) The Physical/Spiritual/Cognitive realms.  I've seen these referenced a lot and I'd like to ask: what the heck are you talking about?  Can I be pointed towards a Brandon Post/Q&A/annotation where he discusses this?

B) Good ol' Hoid.  As above, can anyone tell me if and where Brandon ever actually stated he's some sort of planet-hopper?Without him actually saying "yeah, he can teleport between planets", I'm inclined to believe there are multiple Hoids.  Shards of his consciousness, so to speak.

Thanks a bunch.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 07:14:02 PM by Nessa »

Fireborn

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 307
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Geniusness Explosion!
    • View Profile
    • Rampant And Rhetoric
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 10:25:47 PM »
I'm not sure where the answer to your first question is, but Brandon has said that all of the Hoid appearances we've seen are the same person.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 10:31:47 PM »
I'm not sure where the answer to your first question is, but Brandon has said that all of the Hoid appearances we've seen are the same person.

Yup.

I'm pretty sure the answer to both of these have come from interviews/Q&A and such things at signings and things like that. So far in all of his novels, none of this stuff has been particularly referenced. For example, the Hoid thing, he explained at a signing I went to recently (there are links to video on the forums here, in the topic "STL Signing" or something like that i posted not too long ago) that there is "a character that shows up in all of his books" this would be hoid. While he didn't mention him by name there, this has long been confirmed previously.
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

SmokinEmber

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 02:44:25 AM »
From a Barnes & Noble Q&A session with Brandon:

"Each of the 'Shardworlds' I've written in (Mistborn, Elantris, Warbreaker, Way of Kings) exists with the same cosmology.  All things exist on three realms--the spiritual, the cognitive, and the physical.  What's going on here is an interaction between the three realms.  I don't to bore you with my made up philosophy, but I do have a cohesive metaphysical reasoning for how my worlds and magic works.  And there is a single plane of existence--called Shadesmar, the Cognative Realm--which connects them all.
 
You will never need to know any of this to read and enjoy my books, but there is an overarching story behind all of them, going on in the background.  Adonalsium, Hoid, the origin of Ati, Leras, the Dor, and the Voice (from Warbreaker) are all tied up in this."

Also:

"Hoid is quite proficient at manipulating Shadesmar for his own ends."

The entire interview can be found here:
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Fantasy-Science-Fiction/Post-Questions-For-Brandon-Sanderson-Here/td-p/354645
"Not all who wander are lost" - J.R.R. Tolkien

Ari54

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 295
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • M.J. Whitehead.com
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 04:35:52 AM »
It should be noted that Shadesmar IS the cognitive realm, if that helps.

Pechvarry

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 05:56:43 AM »
(good stuff)

Thanks a bunch!  Now I feel a bit silly for not posting my questions in that "I'm new" thread.  But now that I have my own... more questions!

Ruin and Preservation apparently created humanity on Scadriel.  How can that be?  Those shards are held by humans, which creates a paradox.  Furthermore, the other planets have humans.

On a related note, the other (known) planets have a normal cycle of life and death, a la Earth-as-we-know-it.  How can this be, when Ruin/Preservation are responsible for the circle of life?

My only possible explanation would be that Adonalsium created all the other worlds we've seen before the shattering, while Ruin and Preservation were still simply 2 aspects of a greater whole.   That would make Scadriel a "second generation planet".  Another feasible explanation: all the planets have or had 2 opposite but paired shards, representing multiple ways of reaching the same conclusion.  e.g. Endowment plus something like Acquisition work together to describe the process by which nutrients of dead life forms feed and become part of what is living. 

Anyway, can anyone clear up this confusion? 

Fireborn

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 307
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Geniusness Explosion!
    • View Profile
    • Rampant And Rhetoric
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 07:57:50 AM »
We know that Ruin and Preservation couldn't create by themselves due to the nature of their Shards, whether that holds true for the other Shards remains to be seen.

Hoid, and the theory is the Shardholders too, was there at the shattering of Adonalsium, meaning that there were other planets with humans on them.  The Shards are simply using a template they know works.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

Ari54

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 295
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
    • M.J. Whitehead.com
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 09:33:21 AM »
Shards don't always come in pairs. For instance, Roshar had 3 shards, (2 now that the Almighty is dead) and as far as we know Warbreaker features only Endowment.

Wolpertinger

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2010, 09:55:14 AM »
Ruin and Preservation apparently created humanity on Scadriel.  How can that be?  Those shards are held by humans, which creates a paradox.  Furthermore, the other planets have humans.

On a related note, the other (known) planets have a normal cycle of life and death, a la Earth-as-we-know-it.  How can this be, when Ruin/Preservation are responsible for the circle of life?

My only possible explanation would be that Adonalsium created all the other worlds we've seen before the shattering, while Ruin and Preservation were still simply 2 aspects of a greater whole.   That would make Scadriel a "second generation planet".  Another feasible explanation: all the planets have or had 2 opposite but paired shards, representing multiple ways of reaching the same conclusion.  e.g. Endowment plus something like Acquisition work together to describe the process by which nutrients of dead life forms feed and become part of what is living. 

Anyway, can anyone clear up this confusion? 

As far as I can tell, you're spot on -- Ruin and Preservation created a 'second generation' planet of humans. Presumably, they created said humans to be identical, or as close to identical as possible, to the humans that they used to be.

I'd guess that Adonalsium(sp?) created humans at some point, possibly on only one world, possibly on many.
 After he shattered into tiny pieces, the newly godlike Shards scattered across the universe, either because the shattering of Adonalsium destroyed whatever world they all mutually originated on in the process, or through mutual agreement (spoken or unspoken) insofar in that they all wanted to go out and be gods instead of kill each other off before they had really 'figured out' their godliness and could fight from a position of strength (and their shards hadn't influenced their inner natures yet, so you wouldn't have ruin/preservation at each other's throats or similar opposite pairings), some combination of the two, or something of the nature of the originating world itself, perhaps.

From there, it's possible that the Shards, depending on their natures, created new humans, with their power alone or with the aid of other shards, or had humans 'colonise' from other worlds (possibly including the original).  This would make especial sense if the 'original' human population was wiped out by the Shattering or possibly by a war of 16 new gods immediately after said shattering.  Gods don't like to be without worshippers, and even those who don't care for worship would like to have a humanity to protect or guide or preserve.. or torment or destroy (Ruin would be an empty power without a Preservation to overcome and tear down - he needs something to create so he can destroy).
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 09:57:13 AM by Wolpertinger »

Pechvarry

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2010, 06:19:37 PM »
That makes a lot of sense about them making their own humans that are based off what they know (and were) as opposed to inventing humans fresh. 

Though I was still led to believe through the Mistborn trilogy that Ruin and Preservation were responsible for the circle of life of the planet.  In a very mythology-like "and that's why this happens" sort of way, I thought things were born and lived because of Preservation and decayed and withered due to Ruin's touch, with the certain knowledge that without Ruin, Preservation would eventually become self-defeating.  If this is true, it means the other worlds need a reason to have a cohesive physics structure.

Shards don't always come in pairs. For instance, Roshar had 3 shards, (2 now that the Almighty is dead) and as far as we know Warbreaker features only Endowment.

While I'm going to readily embrace what we know (what you said above) as the easiest and most straightforward solution, I'm not going to discount the possibility that we don't know everything.  For example, 2 could've been responsible for establishing Roshar, and then Odium could've swooped in and said "I want this one!"  Likewise, Endowment could have a counterpart whose simply been absent for one reason or another since the founding of the Warbreaker planet (I can never remember the name!).  Of course, if Endowment had a counterpart, it would likely be something that gives nothing -- not even destruction.  So perhaps it simply has no magic system to share or even influence on the land -- a dud shard.

ROSHtafARian

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Questions (probable spoilers for EVERYTHING!)
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2010, 07:10:59 PM »
Well I believe Brandon has specifically said in interviews that not all planets have or ever had two shards. 

Nessa

  • Administrator
  • Level 32
  • *****
  • Posts: 1918
  • Fell Points: 5
  • Giving life to demon spawn since 1999
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for all works***
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2010, 07:11:34 PM »
Since you guys asked, I stickied this topic.
"The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter--'tis the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."  -  Mark Twain

Check out my book reviews at http://elitistbookreviews.blogspot.com/

lexluthorxiv

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2010, 09:40:28 AM »
@pechvary Thank you SO much for making this post. I was totally wondering the same stuff.  I finally (kinda sorta) feel i understand what's going on.

Pechvarry

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2010, 08:09:00 PM »
Unfortunately, I'm not sure this is the thread that should've been stickied.   Since it is, at some point I'll probably edit the main post or add a new post of common info.  The big one being "YES, ELANTRIS, MISTBORN TRILOGY, WARBREAKER, AND THE STORMLIGHT ARCHIVES ARE ALL IN THE SAME UNIVERSE."

Stormblessed

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 380
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Cosmere Discussion ***SPOILERS for ALL books***
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 12:07:34 PM »
I've heard the words Physical/Spiritual/Cognitive realms a lot and I'm wondering what they mean.

Obviously the physical world is the world where the books are set.

I'm not to sure what the spiritual world is. I'm assuming it has something to do with belief and the shards of Adonalsium.

BUT what the hell is the cognitive realm? I know its Shadsmar, but thats all I understand. I tried looking cognitive up in the dictionary and got totally lost. Can someone clear this up for me?

P.S. Peter (or even Brandon) if you see this I would much appreciate a little hint. I'm in Australia and can't possibly make it to any of the signings to ask the questions personally.

"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier