Author Topic: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris  (Read 3168 times)

Omelethead

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2010, 11:46:25 PM »
Anyways, we know from the epigraphs that Rayse (who I think most of us are assuming to be Odium) killed Aona and Skai, the Shardholders on Elantris, and then proceeded to Splinter their power so they couldn't be taken up by someone else and used to oppose him.  Now we also know, from Dalinar's visions, that Odium killed the Almighty, who seems to be his prime opponent on Roshar.

I asked this on a different topic but this is more relevant. Why did Odium splinter the Shards of Aona and Skai? Why not take them for himself?

Munin

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2010, 12:21:53 AM »
Anyways, we know from the epigraphs that Rayse (who I think most of us are assuming to be Odium) killed Aona and Skai, the Shardholders on Elantris, and then proceeded to Splinter their power so they couldn't be taken up by someone else and used to oppose him.  Now we also know, from Dalinar's visions, that Odium killed the Almighty, who seems to be his prime opponent on Roshar.

I asked this on a different topic but this is more relevant. Why did Odium splinter the Shards of Aona and Skai? Why not take them for himself?
For the same reason Ruin didn't take Preservation's shard.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Omelethead

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2010, 02:27:34 AM »
For the same reason Ruin didn't take Preservation's shard.

I thought that was because Ruin was the antithesis of Preservation, and so he really couldn't. Sazed hadn't been twisted/converted or changed by a Shard yet so he could grab both.


Neither Shard from Elantris sounded like the opposite of Odium, but I guess this explanation does help.

Munin

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2010, 03:44:44 AM »
For the same reason Ruin didn't take Preservation's shard.

I thought that was because Ruin was the antithesis of Preservation, and so he really couldn't. Sazed hadn't been twisted/converted or changed by a Shard yet so he could grab both.


Neither Shard from Elantris sounded like the opposite of Odium, but I guess this explanation does help.
It's also possible that Aona and Skaze purposefully splintered their own shards upon death to prevent Odium from taking them.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Galavantes

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2010, 07:57:32 AM »
My understanding was that Sazed could take both shards because every living creature on that planet (can't recall the mistborn planet sorry) was created by both shards in tandem, and thus everyone was part preservation and part ruin. Therefore they were "compatible" with both. I can't remember the line specifically but I got that impression from a scene with Vin after she had absorbed the preservation shard. She though to herself something along the lines that Laras (preservation) had specifically planned this sequence of events because he needed someone who was both ruin and preservation to destroy Ati.

But maybe I read into the entire thing wrong

happyman

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2010, 02:27:39 PM »
My understanding was that Sazed could take both shards because every living creature on that planet (can't recall the mistborn planet sorry) was created by both shards in tandem, and thus everyone was part preservation and part ruin. Therefore they were "compatible" with both. I can't remember the line specifically but I got that impression from a scene with Vin after she had absorbed the preservation shard. She though to herself something along the lines that Laras (preservation) had specifically planned this sequence of events because he needed someone who was both ruin and preservation to destroy Ati.

But maybe I read into the entire thing wrong

This is reasonable.

We don't really know why Odium didn't take Aona and Skaze's power, although it strongly suggests that he couldn't.
Nature hates being reified.

Omelethead

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2010, 03:36:15 PM »
My understanding was that Sazed could take both shards because every living creature on that planet (can't recall the mistborn planet sorry) was created by both shards in tandem, and thus everyone was part preservation and part ruin. Therefore they were "compatible" with both. I can't remember the line specifically but I got that impression from a scene with Vin after she had absorbed the preservation shard. She though to herself something along the lines that Laras (preservation) had specifically planned this sequence of events because he needed someone who was both ruin and preservation to destroy Ati.

But maybe I read into the entire thing wrong

This is a good point. However, Odium was worried about someone taking up Aona and Skai's Shards. So it is possible, and it sounds to me he was worried about another Shardholder gaining power. But I guess he could just be worried about a Sel native.

happyman

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2010, 02:32:23 PM »
My understanding was that Sazed could take both shards because every living creature on that planet (can't recall the mistborn planet sorry) was created by both shards in tandem, and thus everyone was part preservation and part ruin. Therefore they were "compatible" with both. I can't remember the line specifically but I got that impression from a scene with Vin after she had absorbed the preservation shard. She though to herself something along the lines that Laras (preservation) had specifically planned this sequence of events because he needed someone who was both ruin and preservation to destroy Ati.

But maybe I read into the entire thing wrong

This is a good point. However, Odium was worried about someone taking up Aona and Skai's Shards. So it is possible, and it sounds to me he was worried about another Shardholder gaining power. But I guess he could just be worried about a Sel native.

A Sel native seems extremely likely to be the type person he was worried about.  After all, we know they are attuned to the power of their respective shards:  that's where they get their magic from.
Nature hates being reified.

Never

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2010, 05:12:21 PM »
I asked this on a different topic but this is more relevant. Why did Odium splinter the Shards of Aona and Skai? Why not take them for himself?

Because he's already the most powerful and splintering them would cause more suffering than if he just took them and left?

ROSHtafARian

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2010, 06:57:42 PM »
And also because the shards over time change the nature of their holder.  He's already experienced it himself, even if Rayse as a person was already closest to the true nature of Odium the shard.  But I really doubt a being as fearsome or as terrible as Odium really wants to mess with possibly changing his whole nature just for a power boost when he's already convinced of his own badassness.  Especially if Aona represented Love or some kind of goodness or positive trait of Adonalsium, it'd basically be watering him down.

guy

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2010, 07:02:25 PM »
and once people have held a shard long enough for it to change their personality, I dont think they can take a new shard, because Ruin was not able to take up Preservation.

Omelethead

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2010, 07:26:06 PM »
I've thought about this some more, and now I want to know why Ruin didn't splinter Preservation. If anyone could destroy or maim a Shard, you'd think it'd be Ruin. Then he wouldn't have to worry about anyone rising up and ruining his plans like Vin did.

If he was worried about destroying himself in the process, then how did Odium do it? Did he use his power of hate to convince Aona and Skai to Splinter each other?

happyman

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Re: Splinters - SPOILERS for TWoK and Elantris
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2010, 10:56:43 PM »
I've thought about this some more, and now I want to know why Ruin didn't splinter Preservation. If anyone could destroy or maim a Shard, you'd think it'd be Ruin. Then he wouldn't have to worry about anyone rising up and ruining his plans like Vin did.

If he was worried about destroying himself in the process, then how did Odium do it? Did he use his power of hate to convince Aona and Skai to Splinter each other?

Preservation and Ruin were balanced.  There's nothing to say that the other powers were balanced as a whole, though.  Even if they come in identical balanced pairs, there's nothing to force the different pairs to have the same power.  Or to react to each other quite as strongly.  As an analogy from Allomancy, I'd say that Thugs beat Seekers most days.
Nature hates being reified.