Author Topic: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS  (Read 4433 times)

ashaman33

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Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« on: September 11, 2010, 05:23:40 AM »
Ok guys and gals. You all have me pretty confused right now. I am a Wheel of Time Robert Jordan fan and I became a fan of Brandon after he was tabbed to finish the series. I have read, Elantris, the Hero of Ages saga, Warbreaker, and Way of Kings. I have never come to a forum to speak about Brandon's books before.

Here I find you also discussing seemingly all of his books as if they are part of a single universe! WTF, is this right? Has Brandon indicated that all of the books he has written about exist in the same universe?

I keep reading about shards. What the heck is a shard?

Why do some of you talk about Sazed the Terrisman as if he is in danger from Odium of WOK? What am I missing? (I know apparently a whole lot.) Will someone please catch me up?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Ashaman
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 04:17:57 PM by ashaman33 »

Salkara

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Re: Help!! I'm new!
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 06:10:39 AM »
Adonalsium is a god material that was shattered way back when (no one knows when exactly). Each Shard of Adonalsium makes its holder into a sort of deity. Ones you've met for sure are Ruin and Preservation. Many currently believe that Aona and Skai were on Sel (the world of Elantris).

As for why people are worried about Sazed... well, we don't want him to die, and apparently Odium wants to destroy everything.

luminos

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Re: Help!! I'm new!
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 06:20:55 AM »
Yep, almost all of Brandon's books take place in the same universe, called the Cosmere (I think).  There was this thing/guy called Adonalsium that we almost nothing about, except that when he "shattered", various shards of him got distributed, each of which gives godlike powers.  Two of these shards were called Ruin and Preservation, held by Ati and Leras respectively, now both held by Sazed.  One shard is called Endowment, and it is the only shard on the Warbreaker world.  There were at least two shards on The Elantris world (the worlds name is Sel, by the way), but we don't know the names of these shards.  We do know that they were held by Aona and Skai, but thats about it. 

Hoid is a recurring character, and has shown up in every one of the Cosmere books so far (Harder to find in some than in others).  He apparently hops around planets doing stuff behind the scenes.  His full nature is currently unknown.

Fireborn

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Re: Help!! I'm new!
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 06:23:51 AM »
Your questions: Yes.  Yes.  A Shard of Adonalsium is essentially a god, though they're actually pieces of God (note the capital G there).  Sazed could be on Odium's hit list since he has two Shards rather than one like he does, he's kind of a jerk that way.

It's definitely a good thing you've read all of them, that clears you for pretty much everything.  The things currently at the forefront of everyone's mind are Elantris and WoK, with bits of Mistborn thrown in.  Very little Warbreaker, though.

One thing you'll want to be aware of is Hoid.  He's in every one of Brandon's epic fantasy books.  He appears as a beggar in Elantris, Mistborn and HoA, a storyteller in Warbreaker and WoK (where he gets a lot of attention as the King's Wit), and in disguise as a Terrisman in Well of Ascension.  We're also of the mind that he wrote the epigraphs for part two of WoK.

The overarching cosmology that Brandon has created is called the Cosmere.  In this world there are three realms, the physical, spiritual and cognitive realms.  We don't know a whole lot about these, except that the Cognitive realm is called the Shadesmar (of which you have a partial map in WoK).  Each of Brandon's magic systems ties into this somehow.

Sorry, just pouring out as much as possible, it's a little scattered.  Welcome to the forum!  Feel free to ask questions about anything that confuses you, which this post probably will.  And just know that we actually don't know a terribly large amount of stuff, you can be caught up pretty quick if you pay attention.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

douglas

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Re: Help!! I'm new!
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2010, 06:35:31 AM »
Quite some time ago, some particularly alert readers noticed that one particular character, named Hoid, appeared in both Warbreaker and one of the Mistborn books (at least, I think that's the one that was first noticed).  Brandon then confirmed when asked that this was, in fact, actually the same character, not just reuse of the name.  Hoid has since been identified in various disguises and roles in all three Mistborn books and Elantris as well as Way of Kings.  He generally appears as a relatively minor character providing some manner of guidance, advice, or other assistance to the protagonists.  Brandon revealed in a Q&A that he calls the universe these books are set in the 'Cosmere'.

If you paid close attention to the chapter epigraphs in Hero of Ages (the ones written by Sazed post-ascension), you might have noticed a single reference to some mysterious thing called Adonalsium, and possibly "shards" of this thing.  Readers have pieced together from this, a few other references, and some Q&A sessions with Brandon, that Adonalsium is essentially the setting's equivalent of God.  A long time ago, Adonalsium was shattered and broken apart, and that event gave rise to the Shards of Adonalsium.  Ruin is one of the Shards of Adonalsium.  Preservation is another.  Another one, which Brandon revealed in a Q&A is named Endowment, is responsible for the Returned and the Awakening magic system in Warbreaker.  One or two other Shards are the source of the Dor's power and Seons in Elantris.  It is generally theorized, though not yet explicitly confirmed, that there are precisely 16 Shards of Adonalsium, and there is probably some organizational scheme to them similar to the organization of metals in Allomancy.

The chapter epigraphs in one of the sections of Way of Kings compose a letter from someone about Odium and requesting aid against him.  Somewhere in that letter, it mentions that Odium visited Sel with disastrous results.  Sel is the name of the world that Elantris is in.  Also, it mentions the names of several people who control Shards.  For example, Ati is the man who held Ruin's power (this is the base for the metal name Atium, btw), and Leras had Preservation (the metal bead that made Elend a mistborn was Lerasium).  Odium is the name of a Shard, and Rayse is the name of the man who holds that Shard's power.  Rayse was apparently a very nasty person even before he gained a Shard's power, and the nature of his particular Shard (look it up in a dictionary) has amplified that.  Furthermore, the letter reveals that he killed two Shard-holders on Sel and 'splintered' their power so that no one would be able to take over like Sazed took Ruin and Preservation.  The fact that Odium was on Sel at all proves that he is capable of planet-hopping like Hoid, and some people have extrapolated that Odium might be out to kill all the Shard holders, and Sazed with his two Shards would be an especially important target.

kain243

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Re: Help!! I'm new!
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2010, 02:52:56 PM »
This thread needs to be labled as major spoilers for all of brandon's books.
With that said, I understand who Odium and Rayse are much better now that I've read this.  I didn't pick up that odium was a shard and rayse held the shard from listening to the audiobook.

I just understood that odium was evil and powerful and that's it.

I had the impression that the epigraphs of part 2 were adressed TO hoid and not written by hoid.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 02:55:38 PM by kain243 »

guessingo

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Re: Help!! I'm new!
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2010, 04:01:50 PM »
Adonalsium is a god material that was shattered way back when (no one knows when exactly). Each Shard of Adonalsium makes its holder into a sort of deity. Ones you've met for sure are Ruin and Preservation. Many currently believe that Aona and Skai were on Sel (the world of Elantris).

As for why people are worried about Sazed... well, we don't want him to die, and apparently Odium wants to destroy everything.

which book does he explain that in?

ashaman33

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2010, 04:40:30 PM »
Wow. Thanks folks. I appreciate your enlightenment. Can anyone share a link to where Brandon speaks about these things, the cosmere, Hoid, adomalsium (sp). Thanks again.

Ashaman

SnagglezMaw

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 02:59:42 AM »
A quick beginners question: How do we know Rayse possess the Odium? It's said that Rayse "holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards," (ch. 19, page 295, tWoK), but how do we know that Odium is the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards?

Sir_Read-a-Lot

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 03:18:01 AM »
A quick beginners question: How do we know Rayse possess the Odium? It's said that Rayse "holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards," (ch. 19, page 295, tWoK), but how do we know that Odium is the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards?
We don't.

But it seems reasonable, as Odium killed the Almighty, and Rayas killed Aona and Skai.  Two power-hungry gods seems a bit much for one universe.
“Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”  - Alice in Wonderland

Munin

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 03:41:47 AM »
A quick beginners question: How do we know Rayse possess the Odium? It's said that Rayse "holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards," (ch. 19, page 295, tWoK), but how do we know that Odium is the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards?
We don't.

But it seems reasonable, as Odium killed the Almighty, and Rayas killed Aona and Skai.  Two power-hungry gods seems a bit much for one universe.
Except that we also know that Bavadin is a bad guy, and is a Shardholder.

But in this thread on 17th shard, Chaos had some useful info on that:
Quote from: Chaos2651
Plus, Will asked on my behalf at the Chicago signing, "Did Odium go to Sel before Elantris". He said yes. Unless you want to really complicate things (and hey, that's my job to needlessly complicate things ;) ) and have another Shard go to Sel, instead of obviously associating Rayse with Odium, go ahead. I await that theory topic ;)
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

SnagglezMaw

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 04:40:52 AM »
I like this idea, because to me, it creates more mystery and leaves you thinking even more: what else could be going on? The scale of this whole thing is enormous and I wouldn't be surprised (or rather, I would be) to see all kinds of twists and turns Brandon could throw into it.

Salkara

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 10:54:42 PM »
I like this idea, because to me, it creates more mystery and leaves you thinking even more: what else could be going on? The scale of this whole thing is enormous and I wouldn't be surprised (or rather, I would be) to see all kinds of twists and turns Brandon could throw into it.

Yeah, but twists should be relevant to the plot or they lose impact. We know that Rayse went to Sel and killed both Aona and Skaze from the epigraphs. We also know that Odium went to Sel prior to the events on Elantris. The reasonable assumption to draw from this is that Rayse is Odium. A twist could be thrown in, but it doesn't seem like Rayse not being Odium would enhance the plot.

SnagglezMaw

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 11:22:10 PM »
I don't mean to imply anything I said is true. But with a series this large (Stromlight Archive), and with a deep story behind it all (the Cosmere as a whole), I hesitate to make any assumptions without proof.

Fireborn

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Re: Help!! I'm new!...SPOILERS FOR ALL BOOKS
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2010, 12:53:17 AM »
I have similar feelings, but the thing about this fandom is that while we may have more info than most people get about different books, we still know very little.  So if you don't want to make assumptions go ahead, but without that there's not a lot of theorizing to be done.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?