Author Topic: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium  (Read 2486 times)

Andrew the Great

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Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« on: September 10, 2010, 07:52:38 AM »
We've all heard everyone's concern about our friendly neighborhood Terrisman. Will he be ok now that Odium's around, and Saze holds two Shards, thus making him something of a threat. What I've been wondering about, though, is how is Saze going to hold up with both Ruin and Preservation attempting to shape him to fit them better?

We know that the Shards do affect the nature of their Bearers. After all, Ati was apparently a kind man at first, rather than a raving lunatic who only really wants to destroy the world. So what's going to happen to Saze now that he's got two opposing Shards working on him? Will the two cancel each other out, or is Saze going to go insane? Or something else?
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ryos

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 08:38:37 AM »
It's been a while, but I recall that Preservation planned quite a ways out into the future. Back when he was convincing Ruin to work with him to create humanity, he was planning that some day, one of these creations would take up the mantle of both of the shards. Neither Leras nor Ati could do so themselves; they needed a being who possessed the nature of both to do it.

In other words, Sazed was made for this. I suspect he'll do just fine.
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Wolpertinger

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 10:04:01 AM »
I suspect Sazed has/will become an aspect which is of both preservation and ruin - perhaps something like a 'cycle of life' - things live and grow and then die and fall apart.

Remember that Preservation's power alone isn't enough for life - it took both Preservation and Ruin to create humans.  I'm sure that if Preservation alone somehow managed to kill off ruin and still stay fully powerful, he wouldn't be an entirely wonderful god either.  If you perfectly "preserved" the world, nothing would ever change, for better or for worse. I would imagine a place of perfect "preservation" would be just.. stasis.

Salkara

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 05:59:19 PM »
The question I see hear is how much of a threat is Odium to Sazed? I mean, Odium has one Shard. Sazed has two. I mean, that's got to count for something right?

Munin

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2010, 06:02:38 PM »
I thought Odium has killed other Shardholders. Maybe he has their shards?
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Salkara

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2010, 07:30:23 PM »
I don't think you can take another person's Shard if you already have one. To point, wouldn't Ati have taken Leras's Shard once Leras died?

happyman

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 07:34:20 PM »
I suspect Sazed has/will become an aspect which is of both preservation and ruin - perhaps something like a 'cycle of life' - things live and grow and then die and fall apart.

Remember that Preservation's power alone isn't enough for life - it took both Preservation and Ruin to create humans.  I'm sure that if Preservation alone somehow managed to kill off ruin and still stay fully powerful, he wouldn't be an entirely wonderful god either.  If you perfectly "preserved" the world, nothing would ever change, for better or for worse. I would imagine a place of perfect "preservation" would be just.. stasis.

Actually, because the Lord Ruler took just Preservation's power, in a very real sense the world under him was very much like what Preservation would have been like, although the Lord Ruler was a little bit crazier (thanks to Ruin).

It's almost like each book in Mistborn is thematically related to what happens with each power in control.  In the first book, it's Preservation in charge and Allomancy that get's developed.  In the second, it's the balance in charge (neither has an advantage) and Feruchemy gets developed.  In the third, it's Ruin and Hemalurgy.

Only balance really turned out to be sustainable.
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Munin

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 08:54:23 PM »
I don't think you can take another person's Shard if you already have one. To point, wouldn't Ati have taken Leras's Shard once Leras died?
I was under the impression that he couldn't truly use it, because he no longer understood how to preserve.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Wolpertinger

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2010, 10:48:19 PM »
Actually, because the Lord Ruler took just Preservation's power, in a very real sense the world under him was very much like what Preservation would have been like, although the Lord Ruler was a little bit crazier (thanks to Ruin).

It's almost like each book in Mistborn is thematically related to what happens with each power in control.  In the first book, it's Preservation in charge and Allomancy that get's developed.  In the second, it's the balance in charge (neither has an advantage) and Feruchemy gets developed.  In the third, it's Ruin and Hemalurgy.

Only balance really turned out to be sustainable.

Makes sense - though I'd bet that preservation would want a somewhat more pristine world, but it's true that it might end up having a similarly oppressive society. As far as I can tell, it takes constant exposure to a Shard for it to change your outlook on life - the Lord Ruler's first, disastrous act with the Well's power wasn't much under the aegis of 'preservation'.. though you could say his intent was, whatever the results.

Salkara

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 10:59:14 PM »
I don't think you can take another person's Shard if you already have one. To point, wouldn't Ati have taken Leras's Shard once Leras died?
I was under the impression that he couldn't truly use it, because he no longer understood how to preserve.

Yeah, but Odium has had his Shard for so long (presumably), that he probably can't use the Shards of the other Shardholders he's killed. Another interesting question would be why Odium is able to kill other Shardholders. Shouldn't they all be equal in power. I'm extrapolating here, but Ruin and Preservation were equal until Preservation gave up some of his power to trap Ruin. So shouldn't Odium only be able to destroy Shardholders who have given up some of their power?

rjl

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2010, 11:18:22 PM »
It is assumed that the shards on each planet gave up some of their power to create the life forms on those planets. It may be that Odium did not aid in the creation of life on roshar though, hence not giving up any of his power.

echigo109

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2010, 12:36:54 AM »
whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?

Munin

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2010, 01:39:20 AM »
whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?
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Andrew the Great

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2010, 03:11:46 AM »
It is assumed that the shards on each planet gave up some of their power to create the life forms on those planets. It may be that Odium did not aid in the creation of life on roshar though, hence not giving up any of his power.

Not only that, but all Shards are not created equal.

Quote from: Way of Kings Chapter 19 Epigraph (In Part 2)
He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.

Granted, the author of the letters *Cough*Hoid*Cough* could just be commenting on the nature of Rayse's shard (which makes sense if he holds Odium). But it does sound like his shard is a little more epically awesome than the others in terms of power.

Also, just because Ruin and Preservation were equally matched, or close enough that one couldn't kill the other without being killed, doesn't mean that we should assume that all shards are this way.

And lastly, though it has virtually no basis here, since this is all pretty metaphysical anyway, in my experience, when you shatter something, it's pieces aren't the same size. Even assuming that Adonalsium shattered based off of personality traits/characteristics as seems to be the case, certain traits would be more dominant in Adonalsium than others. Although if this is the way it works, it's telling that Odium is one of the more powerful Shards, and that's on top of the other messed up ones like Ruin.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 03:42:26 AM by Andrew the Great »
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Omelethead

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Re: Sazed, The effects of holding two shards, and Odium
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 04:58:04 AM »
When does Way of Kings take place relative to Mistborn, Elantris, and Warbreaker? It may be that Sazed has been Shardholder for a while, or that Alendi isn't even born yet.

I thought I remembered the books were scattered all over the Overall Timeline. I think Elantris was either very early or late, comparatively.


Though maybe you're right, because now that I think about it, the epigraphs did seem to mention Ati as finished.