Author Topic: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}  (Read 2745 times)

Erunion

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Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« on: September 08, 2010, 09:43:26 PM »
Well. I (a Very long time lurker) finished tWOK's yesterday, and have hardly been able to do anything productive because of it. Curse you Brandon Sanderson!  ;)
So, in a desperate attempt to retain a semblance of sanity, I am committing my thoughts to paper. Well... Close enough, anyway.

First Crazy Grand Majestic Theory: The Nature of the Almighty, and the Tranquiline Halls.

The Almighty
It is my belief that the shard the almighty possessed was "Novelty" (Note Hoid's conversation somewhere late in the book on what men value most. Could also be Creativity or some such.) The Almighty was a creator and an experimenter who liked to mess around with things (in a good way, mostly) and create new, novel ideas or things. This leads me to my next point;

The Tranquiline Halls.

According to my theory, the Tranquiline halls are real. But they are not the place that humans are supposed to go when they die, nor was humanity forced out of them by the voidbringers (Well, not directly anyhow.) The Tranquiline Halls are the Almighty's Laboratory. The Almighty took basic humanity (which likely existed before Adonalsium shattered, as evidenced by the bodies left by Ruin and Preservation in Mistborn: tHOA) and made new and exciting versions, with unique genetic traits which are found all over Roshone. Once the almighty decided that he was finished with modifying and diversifying Humanity, he sent them to Roshone so that he could begin his new project in the Tranquiline halls: The Parshendi. (Hence the Vorin belief that the Voidbringers forced them out of the Tranquiline halls) The Almighty decided to build, from scratch, a whole new species with access to the Cognitive and Spiritual realms. He wanted something Novel, but he also worked in the pattern he was familiar with in the basic human form. (If this theory is correct, the Parshendi are likely the first, experimental species, with more, less human ones intended to be created after the Parshendi proved successful. Alas, the Almighty likely died before he was able to.) So the Creator started work on the Parshendi, pouring all his efforts into them. Odium, seeing that the Almighty (who I will from now on refer to as "Novelty", as he wasn't really almighty) was distracted and pouring his power into the Parshendi, attacked Roshar. This was the first Desolation. Novelty stopped his work in the Tranquiline halls to foil Odium, and the cycle of desolations began. Eventually, (possibly during the so-called "Last Desolation") Odium struck at the heart of Novelty, breaking him and capturing the Tranquiline halls.  :o

The Parsh, both Men and Endi

On the Parsh, I have two theories. Both are crazy, both could be right. Both could be wrong. One of them could be right with the other being wrong. ???  ;D
Theory #1:
The dumb, slow, stupid Parshmen are Beta versions of the Parsh. Works in progress, sent to Roshar for two purposes; as an experiment and to help the Humans against Odium. According to this theory, the Parshmen were fully functional in the Physical realm, yet heavily limited in the Spiritual and Cognitive realms. After each desolation they were brought back to the Tranquiline halls to be updated/upgraded. When Novelty was defeated, they got left behind.
According to this theory, the Parshendi were the finalized version; the "Gold" version. Novelty completed them with the last of his power, before being overwhelmed by Odium. Unfortunately, they were left behind in the Tranquiline halls. According to this theory, the Parshendi we know and love, who are singing, humming and fighting on the Shattered Plains, escaped from the Tranquiline halls. Escaped, or were set loose... (To quote Gandalf the Grey  ;) )
Theory #2:
The Parshendi have easy access to the Spiritual and Cognitive realms through a "Hive Mind" that was created for that purpose by Novelty. This "Hive Mind" connects them, and while it doesn't control them it influences them. Our slow quiet Parshmen are the Parshendi who have been disconnected from the Hive Mind. While still moderately intelligent, they lack the huge advantage granted by their hive mind.
One more, tiny little thing. The Parshendi are "Bound" to the hive mind by a fourth type of SurgeBinding. The Gemhearts they are so desperate for are needed to keep them connected to the Hivemind. If they run out of Gemhearts, their connection to the hive-mind will fade away. Parshendi are terrified, and respect, SurgeBinders, as SurgeBinders can connect/disconnect an individual Parshendi from the Hivemind, a fate quite possible worse than death.

Neither of these theories explain the Parshendi's reverence for the dead. Perhaps the hivemind records everything that happens to the Parshendi up to their point of death, and a central force will eventually come and reconnect those bodies to the hive-mind? This requires much more thought.

The Heralds, and The Oathpact

What is The Oathpact? Why are the Heralds doomed to torment in-between desolations? Again, I have two theories.
Theory #1
When Novelty saw what was happening during the desolations, he found for himself ten volunteers. Each of the volunteers agreed to take on some of Novelties powers and strengths, to defend Roshar so that Novelty could focus on The Tranquiline Halls. In between desolations, they were granted a place of rest where they could recover themselves. Early in the cycle of desolations, Odium captured the Heralds place of rest, turning it into a hell in his attempt to get the Heralds to abandon the Oathpact so that he could destroy Roshar.  >:(
Theory #2
Perhaps, like Preservation, Novelty realized that he was losing. So he decided to do something Novel! He granted the bulk of his powers, not to one replacement, but to ten, and set them to oversee and protect the world. With his power reduced, however, he was unable to stop Odium from making the in-between times living Hells for the Heralds.

The Last Herald

Our last Herald, the only one who didn't abandon the Oathpact, tried desperately to get out of his torment early, or at least to give some warning to humanity (the strange death-prophecies perhaps?). He failed to both escape before his time or to get a clear warning to Humanity. When the time of the Desolation came, he was sent back to Herald it. Likely he was sent somewhere far away, perhaps to the source of the Highstorms, or the great seas to the North. He hurried as best he could towards one of the few places he knew civilization to be, A Dawncity. Exhausted, he burst his way into the city, and fell unconscious; The Herald of the True Desolation; The Everstorm.

The Shattered Plains

There is something that has been nagging at me continually. Where did the Shattered Plains come from? When were they shattered? When did the Chasmfiends arrive? My theory is this; Something massive, carrying with it the Chasmfiends (and possible the Parshendi) crashed into the center of the Shattered Plains. Perhaps this was the opening move of the Everstorm, or perhaps this was a desperate escape attempt by the Parshandi from the Tranquiline Halls. Either way, something Massive struck Roshar. And suddenly we had Parshendi and Chasmfiends.


All these theories are crazy, wild speculation. While they are somewhat connected, one, or even a part of one can be true without any other part.
Please poke holes in my crazy theories, but not too many.  8)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 05:00:48 PM by Erunion »

luminos

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshone {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2010, 08:25:05 AM »
I really like the idea of the almighty being Novelty.  It just seems to jive with the feel I've gotten from things.  I'm going to go quote-hunting to find more things that support this. 

A small correction so you can avoid future confusion:  The name of the planet is Roshar.  When I saw the thread title I thought "Wow, someone must be getting into it pretty deep if they have a grand theory about that grumpy brightlord that ruled over Kaladin's hometown.

Erunion

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2010, 04:58:09 PM »
*Tugs at collar* Err...

Oops.

EDIT: Fixed. Roshone changed to Roshar, everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 05:01:17 PM by Erunion »

Ari54

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 01:59:38 AM »
First Crazy Grand Majestic Theory: The Nature of the Almighty, and the Tranquiline Halls.

The Almighty
It is my belief that the shard the almighty possessed was "Novelty" (Note Hoid's conversation somewhere late in the book on what men value most. Could also be Creativity or some such.) The Almighty was a creator and an experimenter who liked to mess around with things (in a good way, mostly) and create new, novel ideas or things. This leads me to my next point;

So, perhaps the name Cultivation might apply? ;)

douglas

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 02:34:29 AM »
No, Dalinar's final vision is quite explicit that A) the speaker is The Almighty, and B) the speaker is not Cultivation.  There is the possibility that Dalinar's vision is false or altered like the prophecies in Mistborn, but I don't think that's the case.

ROSHtafARian

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 03:04:36 AM »
Personally I'm of the opinion that the Nightwatcher is Cultivation.  The Nightwatcher is indicated to be female, as is Cultivation, and the Almighty says Cultivation is better at seeing the future, and the interludes seem to indicate that the Nightwatcher has knowledge of the future, or is capable of granting such visions as a blessing or a curse.

Furthermore, the Almighty seems tied to the magic of the Heralds, the Radiants and the Shards, as well as Stormlight.  Odium seems to be his opposite number here, though not necessarily a polar opposite like with Ruin and Preservation, but as he's obviously the force behind the Voidbringers, Voidbinding would seem to be his magic.  The Nightwatcher gifts people with the Old Magic, which is clearly separate from either of those, and indicates by its name that it predates the coming of the Almight's more 'scientific' magics and whatever Odium influences.  Thus, this would seem to indicate to me that the Old Magic either predates the coming of shards altogether and is not shard powered, or else its the creation of a different shard, the odd one out in this case, Cultivation.  We don't know enough to say at this point whether the cosmere has any non Shard originating magic, so there is a strong possibility I think that the Nightwatcher is either Cultivation or powered by Cultivation.  My personal belief is that Cultivation originally 'cultivated' life on this world long before the coming of the Almighty and Odium, but it was nonhuman life, as the Almighty created humanity, perhaps in these Tranquiline Halls or on another planet, and then they were cast out by the Voidbringers and then possibly supplanted what Cultivation had made....or bonded with what Cultivation had already made to form a kind of symbitioic relationship which benefited both lifeforms.

So my personal theory is that the spren are the creations of Cultivation, predating humanity and the Old Magic is  what remains of a time before humanity.

Sir_Read-a-Lot

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2010, 10:47:23 PM »
I don't think the Almighty is Novelty per se.  It just doesn't feel right to me.

Besides, I have theory of my own:

Quote from: WoK, hardcover, page 199
For a few extended moments, Shallan was back in the hallway again, watching something that should not be: a heretic wielding one of the most sacred powers in all the world.  The power of change itself, the power by which the Almighty had created Roshar.  He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents.  Elithanathile.  He Who Transforms.

I think the Almighty's shard is either Change or Transformation.

Also, I don't think the Spren are Cultivation's creation.  I think that they are the Splinters of the Almighty's consciousness/power, kind of like the mist spirit in Mistborn, and (possibly) the Seons in Elantris.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2010, 04:35:24 AM by Sir_Read-a-Lot »
“Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”  - Alice in Wonderland

Munin

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2010, 10:50:38 PM »
Also, I don't think the Spren are Cultivation's creation.  I think that they are the Splinters of the Almighty's consciousness/power, kind of like the mist spirit in Mistborn, and (possibly) the Seons in Elantris.
Makes a lot of sense, if he's Transformation, given how the Spren accompany change.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Salkara

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2010, 11:37:59 PM »
Also, I don't think the Spren are Cultivation's creation.  I think that they are the Splinters of the Almighty's consciousness/power, kind of like the mist spirit in Mistborn, and (possibly) the Seons in Elantris.
Makes a lot of sense, if he's Transformation, given how the Spren accompany change.

Hmm, wonder if the fact that recording a fact about a spren locks that aspect of the spren in place plays into this? Like, they transform until they're recorded? Don't know exactly where I'm going with this :-\

Sir_Read-a-Lot

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 11:43:43 PM »
Also, I don't think the Spren are Cultivation's creation.  I think that they are the Splinters of the Almighty's consciousness/power, kind of like the mist spirit in Mistborn, and (possibly) the Seons in Elantris.
Makes a lot of sense, if he's Transformation, given how the Spren accompany change.

Hmm, wonder if the fact that recording a fact about a spren locks that aspect of the spren in place plays into this? Like, they transform until they're recorded? Don't know exactly where I'm going with this :-\
Reminds me of Schrodinger's Cat, and the uncertainty principle.
“Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”  - Alice in Wonderland

Munin

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2010, 11:47:25 PM »
Quantum Spren, I guess.

Of course, what that means is anybody's guess.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Ari54

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 03:51:51 AM »
No, Dalinar's final vision is quite explicit that A) the speaker is The Almighty, and B) the speaker is not Cultivation.  There is the possibility that Dalinar's vision is false or altered like the prophecies in Mistborn, but I don't think that's the case.

I'm not implying the Almighty is Cultivation, I'm implying that "novelty" as you describe the shard is probably a role that's being fulfilled by Cultivation, given that the improvement of existing stock is pretty much the definition of that word.

@Sir Reads A Lot: Yeah, that's a really good catch.

Sir_Read-a-Lot

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Re: Erunion's Grand Theory of Roshar {WOK- Big Spoilers}
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 04:39:32 AM »
Incidentally - might Dalinar's receiving of the visions might be related to his deal with the Old Magic?

I suspect that the Old Magic is a product of Cultivation, but the visions are still the Almighty's.  Cultivation(/Old Magic) simply made it possible for Dalinar to receive them.
“Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.”  - Alice in Wonderland