Author Topic: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges  (Read 27224 times)

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2010, 12:45:15 PM »
Remember as well, we haven't seen a structure being soulcast. We saw a rock converted to smoke, men converted to fire and glass (I think?) and something (I forget what... a vase?) converted to blood.

I don't think soulcasting a building works like, (for example) Fullmetal Alchemist "alchemy" magic, where a fully formed structure emerges from the ground. Until we know more about it, I'm going to reckon that there's some reason for it, whether its related to restrictions in the magic or it's something more mundane like politics or expense.

Yeah. I'm convinced there's some quirk with soulcasting making creating stuff from thin air less than desirable. Otherwise, why would you need to transmute things in the first place? Why not make everything from nothing?
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

Salkara

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2010, 04:24:50 PM »
I think Brandon's already covered this, either in the book, in interviews, or at signings.

It's covered by the economic concept of opportunity cost (every resource used has an opportunity cost equal to the other uses it could've been used for). In this case, the resources are the gemhearts used for Soulcasting. The army has enough gemhearts to Soulcast food. Using the gemhearts for this purpose means they don't require supply lines. If they used the gemhearts for Soulcasting bridges, they might have to develop supply lines to bring in food from outside.

In the end, it's cheaper to Soulcast rocks into food and use manual labor to make bridges than it is to Soulcast air into bridges and use manual labor to transport food to the warcamps.

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2010, 04:28:47 PM »
In the end, it's cheaper to Soulcast rocks into food and use manual labor to make bridges than it is to Soulcast air into bridges and use manual labor to transport food to the warcamps.

But the wood for the bridges is being created by soulcasting, as pretty much explicitly stated in the book. :P

This is where the conundrum lies, which is why i say there has to be some quirk with soulcasting we arent aware of, i.e. bridge from nothing is more costly, timely, or impossible for this or that reason.
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

Vanstorm

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2010, 05:42:41 PM »
Or what about the interlude chapter (don't have my book with me... ) dealing with the traders.  There is definitely mention in there about turning wood into metal... and that they wouldn't make a complex structre out of metal, but would carve it out of wood and then soulcast it into metal.

Why not build the wooden bridges, carry them into place, THEN soulcast them into metal?  A metal bridge would be stronger than a stone bridge, heavier than a wooden bridge, able to withstand the elements, and impossible to burn.  Granted, they could possibly still push them off the edge, but depending on how heavy the metal is, that may not be possible either and would require a LARGE group of Parshendi that the scouts would notice in time to prevent.

Best of both worlds?

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2010, 05:55:13 PM »
Or what about the interlude chapter (don't have my book with me... ) dealing with the traders.  There is definitely mention in there about turning wood into metal... and that they wouldn't make a complex structre out of metal, but would carve it out of wood and then soulcast it into metal.

Why not build the wooden bridges, carry them into place, THEN soulcast them into metal?  A metal bridge would be stronger than a stone bridge, heavier than a wooden bridge, able to withstand the elements, and impossible to burn.  Granted, they could possibly still push them off the edge, but depending on how heavy the metal is, that may not be possible either and would require a LARGE group of Parshendi that the scouts would notice in time to prevent.

Best of both worlds?

I can understand why they didnt do this. Cost. They would have to create the wood, pay the carpenters to build bridges, and then pay the soulcasters to transmute it, the last probably seemed like it was more expensive than it was worth.

Plus, Sadea's bridge crews were considered way more than fast enough, so this could also be the reason they didn't do it. However, for Dalinar, i could see him considering it, since his siege bridges were so slow.

If your car runs perfectly fine, you dont usually consider getting a new car (unless you're rich and wanna show off, but thats a different scenario from the bridge crews)
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

Omelethead

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The Member Formerly Known as Gher
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2010, 06:57:53 PM »
They can arch the bridges, they can build them out of wood-then-metal, they can anchor them deep in the plateuas, they can augment  stone bridges with metal struts, there are many ways they can get around this.

And as for the car analogy, it seems more like having a car that runs, but it isn't fast enough to win many races, and it breaks down easily. It would make a lot of sense to get a new car, one that's faster and more reliable, even if it is more expensive.

And going back to what Vanstorm pointed out, the merchant got the scrap metal cheap because it was easier and cheaper to build things out of other materials to Soulcast later than it is to melt the scraps down and build them the regular way. It sounds like Soulcasting is fairly economical to me.


Munin:
Quote
Also, the concrete buildings withstanding plane crashes... you misunderstand. It left a plane-shaped hole in the building at the top, but the building didn't collapse. Stick a boulder-sized hole in a stone bridge, and it'll fall apart.

Except that the boulders don't leave boulder-sized holes in the barracks. They can build these bridges as strong and as supported as they need to. They're not limited to conventional building techniques. Maybe Soulcasting is slow, maybe it's hard to do. But we've seen no indication that they've even tried.

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2010, 07:16:26 PM »
They're not limited to conventional building techniques. Maybe Soulcasting is slow, maybe it's hard to do. But we've seen no indication that they've even tried.

But we also haven't seen any indication that they HAVEN'T tried it. As the late Carl Sagan said "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

Inkthinker

  • Level 11
  • *
  • Posts: 426
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Animation and Illustration
    • View Profile
    • inkthinker.deviantart.com
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2010, 08:27:55 PM »
In the end, it's cheaper to Soulcast rocks into food and use manual labor to make bridges than it is to Soulcast air into bridges and use manual labor to transport food to the warcamps.

But the wood for the bridges is being created by soulcasting, as pretty much explicitly stated in the book. :P

This is where the conundrum lies, which is why i say there has to be some quirk with soulcasting we arent aware of, i.e. bridge from nothing is more costly, timely, or impossible for this or that reason.

I'm nearly positive there is mention of nearby sources for wood. I'll have to re-read to find it for sure, but I though for sure there was something mentioned, either as Kaladin was coming in to the camps or while he was wandering about.

For some reason I thought it was stumpweight trees (though they may not be mentioned by name), but maybe that's 'cause when he described those I thought, "these are perfect for lumber" and I made a connection that isn't there.

Just the same, I'm pretty sure they're not getting all their wood through soulcasting.

SnagglezMaw

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 31
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2010, 08:32:17 PM »
In the end, it's cheaper to Soulcast rocks into food and use manual labor to make bridges than it is to Soulcast air into bridges and use manual labor to transport food to the warcamps.

But the wood for the bridges is being created by soulcasting, as pretty much explicitly stated in the book. :P

This is where the conundrum lies, which is why i say there has to be some quirk with soulcasting we arent aware of, i.e. bridge from nothing is more costly, timely, or impossible for this or that reason.

I'm nearly positive there is mention of nearby sources for wood. I'll have to re-read to find it for sure, but I though for sure there was something mentioned, either as Kaladin was coming in to the camps or while he was wandering about.

For some reason I thought it was stumpweight trees (though they may not be mentioned by name), but maybe that's 'cause when he described those I thought, "these are perfect for lumber" and I made a connection that isn't there.

Just the same, I'm pretty sure they're not getting all their wood through soulcasting.
It was said at one point that Sadeas held more lumber resources than any other Highprince (and that other Highprinces would try to make deals for that lumber), indicating they all used lumber for one thing or another.

Inkthinker

  • Level 11
  • *
  • Posts: 426
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Animation and Illustration
    • View Profile
    • inkthinker.deviantart.com
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2010, 08:34:59 PM »
One more point: How many bridges would you need to soulcast before cost/benefit makes the practice impractical? The bridge crews have to drop and raise dozens, possibly hundreds of times before they reach a destination. Maybe you could cast a few nearby bridges, but what would be the point? Wooden ones work just as well, cost less, and don't require the local priesthood to help you out.

Perhaps the issue is one of volume as much as anything?

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2010, 08:47:34 PM »
In the end, it's cheaper to Soulcast rocks into food and use manual labor to make bridges than it is to Soulcast air into bridges and use manual labor to transport food to the warcamps.

But the wood for the bridges is being created by soulcasting, as pretty much explicitly stated in the book. :P

This is where the conundrum lies, which is why i say there has to be some quirk with soulcasting we arent aware of, i.e. bridge from nothing is more costly, timely, or impossible for this or that reason.

I'm nearly positive there is mention of nearby sources for wood. I'll have to re-read to find it for sure, but I though for sure there was something mentioned, either as Kaladin was coming in to the camps or while he was wandering about.

For some reason I thought it was stumpweight trees (though they may not be mentioned by name), but maybe that's 'cause when he described those I thought, "these are perfect for lumber" and I made a connection that isn't there.

Just the same, I'm pretty sure they're not getting all their wood through soulcasting.
It was said at one point that Sadeas held more lumber resources than any other Highprince (and that other Highprinces would try to make deals for that lumber), indicating they all used lumber for one thing or another.

Actually, it was talk about sadeas owning the most lumber, but he was also inflating his price so that the high princes would rely on the king's soulcasaters for wood. :P

It was at the same point that Dalinar said he would proclaim that all those who were caught up on their dues would get a discount on soulcasting, because people were behind on their payments.
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

SnagglezMaw

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 31
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2010, 11:49:42 PM »
Actually, it was talk about sadeas owning the most lumber, but he was also inflating his price so that the high princes would rely on the king's soulcasaters for wood. :P
I knew it was something like that, thanks for the correction  ;D.

rjl

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 146
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2010, 05:56:59 PM »
A bit of a jump back in the conversation, but I recall we were discussing bridges being 50 feet long, When Kaladin first sees a bridge on page 101 it is said to be around 30 feet long.

Eerongal

  • Level 23
  • *
  • Posts: 1199
  • Fell Points: 0
  • That jaunty jackanapes with moxie and pizzazz
    • View Profile
    • Rockin' with the Erock
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #88 on: September 15, 2010, 06:02:38 PM »
A bit of a jump back in the conversation, but I recall we were discussing bridges being 50 feet long, When Kaladin first sees a bridge on page 101 it is said to be around 30 feet long.

Well, considering inkthinker was talking about the longest gaps they'd be seeing at 25 feet, this doesnt really hinder too much. In fact, it makes it a bit easier in the bridges not being so unwieldy.
[shameless plug]
My site
[/shameless plug]

Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-R. Howard

Pie is clearly the most trustworthy. Pie for president. - Me.

rjl

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 146
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #89 on: September 15, 2010, 07:08:52 PM »
A bit of a jump back in the conversation, but I recall we were discussing bridges being 50 feet long, When Kaladin first sees a bridge on page 101 it is said to be around 30 feet long.

Well, considering inkthinker was talking about the longest gaps they'd be seeing at 25 feet, this doesnt really hinder too much. In fact, it makes it a bit easier in the bridges not being so unwieldy.
But they wouldn't be able to push a 30 foot bridge out accross a gap 25 feet without it toppling, not easily anyway...