Author Topic: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges  (Read 8677 times)

rjl

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2010, 11:15:43 AM »
Inkthinker, if there weight is equally spread along them they shouldn't tip unless the gap they're being pushed accross is just over half their length.

Vanstorm

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2010, 02:51:31 PM »
And we know that some of the gaps are that large... there were several descriptions that said the bridge barely reached across the gap, especially once they neared the Plateau.

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2010, 03:49:14 PM »
As far as the pushing goes - they just drop the bridge before the chasm, and push/slide it over?
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rjl

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2010, 04:25:40 PM »
And we know that some of the gaps are that large... there were several descriptions that said the bridge barely reached across the gap, especially once they neared the Plateau.
That could mean barely reached without tiping, i.e. the gap being about half the length of the bridge.

Otherwise, yes the bridges would need to be weighted at the rear.

Inkthinker

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2010, 05:34:21 PM »
"barely reach" might mean "barely reach without tipping" rather than that the gap itself is nearly equal to the length of the bridge. I'd have to re-read the text to see for certain.


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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2010, 05:44:00 PM »
And we know that some of the gaps are that large... there were several descriptions that said the bridge barely reached across the gap, especially once they neared the Plateau.
That could mean barely reached without tiping, i.e. the gap being about half the length of the bridge.

Otherwise, yes the bridges would need to be weighted at the rear.

either situation could be true, however, if *I* were building these bridges, i'd rather make them weighted to be able to "barely reach" something further than halfway across the bridge.

Also, doesn't kaladin mention to himself at some point that its easier/lighter carrying at a certain position on the bridge? This could be an indication of weighting (it may have been an "easier to carry" towards the middle than the edge or something, rather than front-to-back, which could just indicated "it's easier because i have dudes on both sides of me" rather than weighting)
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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2010, 03:56:05 PM »
Why didn't they Soulcast permanent bridges across the chasms? They mentioned briefly that the Parshendi were pulling down or burning some of the wooden permanent ones. Stone ones have got to last longer. It seems they could spread out farther, go longer without needing the mobile bridges. They'd still likely need the mobile bridges for the final assault (especially if they want bait).

They can't be worried about giving the Parshendi an easy path to the warcamps since the Parshendi can just hop across chasms with no bridges needed.

They could Soulcast permanent bridges as wide and as thick as they need. It might be expensive, but surely the speed benefit would help them get more gemhearts to balance out. They could even Soulcast over entire chasms, and make outposts out on the plateaus. Yes, they'd be less protected from the highstorms, and more vulnerable to Parshendi raids, but they could Soulcast stronger barracks and fill the outposts with the equivalent of bridgemen - scum, criminals and rejects who need someplace to go and die.

Perhaps Dalinar as the new Highprince of War will commission Soulcast bridges?

Munin

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2010, 04:31:56 PM »
Isn't soulcasting considered to be incredibly holy by Vorinism? It seems like using it for war might violate their beliefs.
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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2010, 05:29:45 PM »
I really need to get an idea in my head of how wide the chasms between plateaus are, because I'm thinking sometimes we imagine them to be very wide, and they don't need to be.

Think about it, though... a gap of 10 feet is too far for most people, especially weighed down with armor and weapons, to jump with any reasonable expectation of success. For scale, I think the average US residential street (two lanes, no dividing line, no shoulder) is about 20-25 feet wide, which seems a lot wider than any of the spaces that Bridge Four was exploring down below, so it sounds reasonable to say that's probably about the widest gap a bridge crew covers, (unless the text of the book directly contradicts me). That's sufficient distance for a 50-foot bridge, weighted to the rear, to cover if the opposing edge is just slightly lower, and lets remember that ANY gap wider than maybe 6 feet probably requires the bridge crews to drop their bridge.

Does someone with a ebook version want to keysearch and actually transcribe or C&P what is actually written about the dimensions and shape of the bridges, as well as the dimensions of the gaps? I remember vague details such as the wedge-shaped ends and the hollow interior and that it's something like 5 men across and 10 rows deep, but that's not solid measurement.

On the issue of soulcasting bridges:

Soulcasting is more than holy, it's expensive. Wood and lives are cheaper.

rjl

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2010, 05:31:19 PM »
Inkthinker, a 50-foot bridge would not need to be weighted at the rear to handle a 25 foot gap, it would need to be for a wider gap, but not for a 25 foot one.

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2010, 05:41:13 PM »
Inkthinker, a 50-foot bridge would not need to be weighted at the rear to handle a 25 foot gap, it would need to be for a wider gap, but not for a 25 foot one.

Actually, for a 25-foot gap, it might need to. Because if the gap itself is 25 feet, after the 25 foot point, the bridge will start teetering and being unruly in general, and you're gonna need several feet beyond that 25 feet to make the bridge stable between the two edges (i would say at least a good 5 feet or so, otherwise the bridge is just going to slip/buckle/crumble off the ground and fall)

If the bridge falls too early from going over the half way point, they might not be able to guide out as far as they need to to make it stable on both edges.
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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2010, 05:52:04 PM »
If you think about the physics of it, a bridge could probably make a distance slightly more than half its length. First, the bridge is in movement, so it has forward momentum that could carry it further. Second, the opposing plateau should be lower in height than the one the bridgemen are on. If the bridge were stationary between two plateaus of equal height, it would tip at the halfway mark. Since the bridge is in motion and the plateaus are different in height, it'll carry over a couple more feet once it starts to tip.

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2010, 05:59:37 PM »
If you think about the physics of it, a bridge could probably make a distance slightly more than half its length. First, the bridge is in movement, so it has forward momentum that could carry it further. Second, the opposing plateau should be lower in height than the one the bridgemen are on. If the bridge were stationary between two plateaus of equal height, it would tip at the halfway mark. Since the bridge is in motion and the plateaus are different in height, it'll carry over a couple more feet once it starts to tip.

right, but it needs to make it far enough to be stable, not just make it. The bridges are heavy, and can likely plummet downward if they don't hit far enough on the edge of the plateau to be stable, they'll either slip or something from their momentum.

Also, this vastly changes depending on if we're talking 25 feet horizontal or diagonal. If it's 25 feet horizontal across the chasm (i.e. the chasm is 25 feet wide) then there's no way a 50 foot bridge could make it across, because the diagonal distance is too great.

I dont know if its ever specified, but if we're saying its a "25 foot gap" i would have to assume the chasms are 25 feet wide, because otherwise we would say something like "its 25 feet edge-to-edge" or something similar, i would think. I've been going with the assumption "25 foot gap" means "Chasm opening of 25 feet"
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rjl

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2010, 06:30:15 PM »
Remember you ahve bridgemen pushing it out. a 50ft unweighted bridge will go horizontal 25 foot before it starts going down, the bridgemen pushing it out probably mean that it will get a bit further. And it only has to be just on the other side when it touches intially, as they can keep pushing it.

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Re: WoK: Bridge Crews & Bridges
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2010, 07:41:51 PM »
And bear in mind, I'm saying 25 feet would be the widest gap. Like, the chasms around the Tower might be that wide at their thinnest point, hence the limited options for approach that played such an important role in that battle.

More common chasms would be less than that. The average is probably around 15 feet (again, I'm guessing unless we find contextual statements or clues), which a 50-foot long, rear-weighted bridge should be able to handle with (relative) ease. And even gaps where a single person might reasonably attempt to jump, say only 6 feet or so, become quite another obstacle when you try to move an army across them.

Another good visual exercise, if you live in a city (or just care to do some Street View touring) is to take a look at the width of the alleys between tall buildings you pass by. If it's wide enough to admit a single vehicle, that may only be 10-12 feet wide, but its more than you would want to try and cross unaided if you were 5 or 6 stories up.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 07:47:25 PM by Inkthinker »