Author Topic: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*  (Read 15047 times)

jrh1524

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WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« on: September 07, 2010, 08:41:34 PM »
It seems like every time Kaladin does something honorable or heroic, Syl grows in power and/or gains memory.  Do you agree with that?  What is Syl becoming, what is her ultimate form?  Will she top out in power eventually or will she keep going?

Also, do you think there is any chemistry between the two?  Kaladin keeps commenting in his head that Syl is "pretty".  Do you think he'll get the sweets for her or Syl for him?  Will they even be able to get "romantic"?

VegasDev

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2010, 08:48:07 PM »
I imagine it would go down a little something like this
Now you've got all the ones with beards on one side and all the
moustaches on the other.

happyman

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2010, 10:33:02 PM »
It seems like every time Kaladin does something honorable or heroic, Syl grows in power and/or gains memory.  Do you agree with that?  What is Syl becoming, what is her ultimate form?  Will she top out in power eventually or will she keep going?

Also, do you think there is any chemistry between the two?  Kaladin keeps commenting in his head that Syl is "pretty".  Do you think he'll get the sweets for her or Syl for him?  Will they even be able to get "romantic"?

Syl definitely responds to Kaladin being honorable.  I suppose that's why she's an honorspren:  She shows up naturally around honor the way painspren show up around pain or firespren around fire.  That bit of logic made sense.

My guess is that it is a two-way process:  She feeds Kaladin's sense of honor, and his honor feeds her.

My guess is that Kaladin's raw power has maxed out now that Kaladin has taken the oath of the knights radiant.  It seems like a good mortal (i.e. Elantrian or Returned or powerful Mistborn) level, and will take a lot of practice to master.  Also, it seems to me that it is the same level as Szeth has hit, and Szeth never said anything about increasing in power over time, nor have we seen such shown onscreen.

As for romance---I doubt it.  She's not human, after all.  In some sense, she's a metaphysical representation of Kaladin himself.
Nature hates being reified.

Aranfan

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2010, 11:07:42 PM »
Personally I'm wondering where Szeth's honorspren is.  Syl really doesn't like leaving Kal, so why is Szeth missing his companion?

ryos

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2010, 11:42:00 PM »
My theory is that it's related to what I've come to call Geranid's Certainty Principle. Namely, that measuring an attribute of a spren (and recording that measurement) fixes said attribute for as long as the record stands. Kaladin serves as caliper and record for Syl. Remember when she left him, and almost lost herself? Somehow, he is measuring her, and she evolves along with his "record" of her attributes.
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rjl

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 12:11:25 AM »
My guess is that Kaladin's raw power has maxed out now that Kaladin has taken the oath of the knights radiant.  It seems like a good mortal (i.e. Elantrian or Returned or powerful Mistborn) level, and will take a lot of practice to master.  Also, it seems to me that it is the same level as Szeth has hit, and Szeth never said anything about increasing in power over time, nor have we seen such shown onscreen.
He only spoke the second Ideal of the Knights Radiant, I think there are more, so perhaps he has more power to come as he gets mroe in sync with Syl through committing himself to the rest of the Ideals, or perhaps not.

happyman

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 07:57:30 PM »
My guess is that Kaladin's raw power has maxed out now that Kaladin has taken the oath of the knights radiant.  It seems like a good mortal (i.e. Elantrian or Returned or powerful Mistborn) level, and will take a lot of practice to master.  Also, it seems to me that it is the same level as Szeth has hit, and Szeth never said anything about increasing in power over time, nor have we seen such shown onscreen.
He only spoke the second Ideal of the Knights Radiant, I think there are more, so perhaps he has more power to come as he gets mroe in sync with Syl through committing himself to the rest of the Ideals, or perhaps not.

Actually, I did think of something.

The knights radiant are always shown using Shardplate and Shardblade.  Glowing Shardplate and Shardblade.  Yet, somehow, the current magic users are adverse to using them.  Maybe overcoming that particular weakness will be a way for Kaladin to power up again, as it were.  Heaven only knows he's going to need the help.
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Munin

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2010, 09:33:16 PM »
My guess is that Kaladin's raw power has maxed out now that Kaladin has taken the oath of the knights radiant.  It seems like a good mortal (i.e. Elantrian or Returned or powerful Mistborn) level, and will take a lot of practice to master.  Also, it seems to me that it is the same level as Szeth has hit, and Szeth never said anything about increasing in power over time, nor have we seen such shown onscreen.
He only spoke the second Ideal of the Knights Radiant, I think there are more, so perhaps he has more power to come as he gets mroe in sync with Syl through committing himself to the rest of the Ideals, or perhaps not.

Actually, I did think of something.

The knights radiant are always shown using Shardplate and Shardblade.  Glowing Shardplate and Shardblade.  Yet, somehow, the current magic users are adverse to using them.  Maybe overcoming that particular weakness will be a way for Kaladin to power up again, as it were.  Heaven only knows he's going to need the help.
The ones that we saw.

It's possible that the Surgebinding orders didn't use plate.
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sdelu

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2010, 09:42:32 PM »
The ones that we saw.

It's possible that the Surgebinding orders didn't use plate.

Actually, I think we know for a fact that they did.  In Dalinar's vision of the Radiants giving up their plate and blade:

Quote from: US hardcover p 729
"...the Order of the Stonewards, my lord," the still-mounted scout was saying. "And a large number of Windrunners. All on foot."

We know that Windrunners are Surgebinders, and we know they were there to give up their Shard and Plate, so I think it's safe to say Surgebinders could use Shardplate.  Plus, the ones from Dalinar's other visions falling from the sky, those seem to be the work of the Lashings, no?  And when they hit the ground they have that "pulse" of Stormlight, just like Kaladin when he fell from tying the armor to the bridge.

Salkara

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 09:47:18 PM »
Anyone else have the suspicion that Syl will be key to Kaladin getting a Dawnblade? I'm basing this on some information without much flesh, but here's the evidence I see:

1. In the prologue, it's mentioned that the Herald's blade was more "pure" than a Shardblade.
2. Kaladin has an aversion to Shardblades
3. Syl also has an aversion to Shardblades
4. Syl states at one point that even though she abhors killing, she remembers helping it happen before

So, I think Kaladin and Syl dislike Shardblades for the same reason: they aren't "pure." The line about Syl helping kill tells me that she has something to do with acquiring a "pure" sword. Maybe she leads him to one, or maybe she becomes a sword. Who knows.

At the very least, this could help explain why Szeth doesn't have a honorspren following him around. He carries a Shardblade, and his honorspren finds it so dishonorable that he/she won't be around him.

Random112

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 10:48:20 PM »
Agreed, it seems like once the Knights Radiant abandoned their swords and plate that they lost some of their power and purity. Somehow Kaladin will acquire or make his own Shardplate- I wouldnt be surprised if Dalinar did as well.

Anyone else have the suspicion that Syl will be key to Kaladin getting a Dawnblade? I'm basing this on some information without much flesh, but here's the evidence I see:

1. In the prologue, it's mentioned that the Herald's blade was more "pure" than a Shardblade.
2. Kaladin has an aversion to Shardblades
3. Syl also has an aversion to Shardblades
4. Syl states at one point that even though she abhors killing, she remembers helping it happen before

So, I think Kaladin and Syl dislike Shardblades for the same reason: they aren't "pure." The line about Syl helping kill tells me that she has something to do with acquiring a "pure" sword. Maybe she leads him to one, or maybe she becomes a sword. Who knows.

At the very least, this could help explain why Szeth doesn't have a honorspren following him around. He carries a Shardblade, and his honorspren finds it so dishonorable that he/she won't be around him.

Ari54

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2010, 02:03:18 AM »
Personally I'm wondering where Szeth's honorspren is.  Syl really doesn't like leaving Kal, so why is Szeth missing his companion?

I think we may find that Spren, while necessary for being a Radiant, are not necessary to access the magic systems. But that's pure speculation based on one of Jasnah's comments near the end of the book.

Munin

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2010, 02:26:24 AM »
Personally I'm wondering where Szeth's honorspren is.  Syl really doesn't like leaving Kal, so why is Szeth missing his companion?

I think we may find that Spren, while necessary for being a Radiant, are not necessary to access the magic systems. But that's pure speculation based on one of Jasnah's comments near the end of the book.
On the other hand, an honorspren might partially explain Szeth's unwillingness to violate the terms of his punishment.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Ari54

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 03:13:21 AM »
Possibly, but if so, you'd think we'd have seen his by now.

Sir_Read-a-Lot

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Re: WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 03:24:58 AM »
I don't think that Syl's objection is inherent to the Shardblade itself.  Think about it - for the past couple centuries, to get a shardblade you either had to inherit it or kill it's owner (or be given it by someone else who killed it's owner).  None of these are terribly honorable.  I suspect that in the Knight Radiants' time, Shardblades were earned.  An earned shardblade would be far more honorable than an inherited one, or one that was murdered for.
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