Author Topic: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)  (Read 6105 times)

Celegus

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2010, 04:18:05 PM »
I have a feeling that Amaram really isn't going to be the guy we all want to hate. It seemed like he genuinely regretted his decisions, and he probably legitimately believed he had a responsibility to do what he did.† I'm definitely curious to see what Brandon does with his character, because there is a lot of potential with that guy beyond "scumbag who deserves to die".
That's how I imagined him as well, and why I kept hoping we'd see him again before the book was over.

happyman

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2010, 05:58:59 PM »
Ten books, people.

It really isn't hard to see that we're being set up for at least a few long-range plot and character arcs.
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Tasslehoof

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2010, 06:13:43 PM »
I really didn't think any of the "villains" were that villainous... I mean, Szeth SEEMS the worst, because he mows down people for what some might say is "no reason at all", but he clearly, and I mean, really clearly, can't control himself.  The Oathstone literally forces him to do things.  Maybe in a realistic novel, where some murderer is saying "my Oathstone made me do it" would be wacky, but in a fantasy novel, its completely acceptable, and I for one am very excited to see how Szeth's character plays out.  I don't think he is, or ever will be, entirely, a villain.

The other characters you talked about were d!cks, I'll admit, but none of them were that villain from a comic book, who does evil stuff just to be evil.  I think we have yet to see who the real villain of WoK is.  Although only mentioned a few times, Odium does seem to have influence (much like Ruin) on the people of Roshar.  I have a feeling he will be showing up a lot more often in the future.  Most of the people did what they did because it is the best way for personal gain, which is repeatedly shown to be core of Alethi culture.
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EvilNuff

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2010, 01:50:46 PM »
...The Oathstone literally forces him to do things.† ...

No, it does not, his honor forces him to obey.† Chapter 71:
Quote
I probably neednít say it, but I order you not to harm me.
and
Quote
Or I could kill him, Szeth thought. I could stop this.
He nearly did it. But honor prevailed, for the moment.

His honor, not his oathstone stopped him from breaking a command.

Erunion

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2010, 06:00:14 PM »
Or at least, that's what he thinks.  :o
He could just be making up reasons for him wanting to obey, with his honour being the strongest. A similar concept can be found in WOT, where people who are compelled must make up reasons in their own heads to obey the orders, and that the most effective compulsion is telling you to do something that you already would do normally. In this case, Szeth could be "Compelled" to obey his oathstone, and as he considers it an "Honourable" thing to do, he does it and tells himself that his "honour" is prevailing.

Just a thought.

Lord Terrisman

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2010, 07:49:06 PM »
My top five are:

1) Odium- okay I know he can't be killed except for maybe by Hoid or Sazed ( other shardholders) but he is really evil.
2) King Taravangian- the most evil human on Roshar!!!
3)The Ghostbloods
4)Szeth- not really bad but he still probably needs to be chopped down in order to get to Taravangian.
5) Amaran

Salkara

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2010, 07:56:57 PM »
Aside from the obvious (Odium), I don't think we've met 5 villains who *need* to die. Sadeas is up there, but he's got redeeming qualities. We don't know enough about Amaram, the Ghostbloods, or others to know how they'll play out. I see Nan Balat becoming quite a villain in later books and in need of killage (from Shallan of course), but that's just conjecture at this point. Taravangian seems pretty sinister, but I can also see him as someone who's made bad choices. As for Szeth... I see him being a hero; redemption is always a strong story.

KhyEllie

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2010, 11:19:54 PM »
These would be my 5:

Odium (Not much to say there)
Thaidakar (Ghostblood leader dude. He's probably really evil, even though we don't know much about him yet)
Taravangian (I would prefer that Szeth get over his 'honor' and just kill this guy, rather than anyone else doing it. He got so close...)
Roshone (I can't wait to see his reaction when he finds out what's become of Kaladin)
Amaram (He's on his way to the Shattered Plains at the end of the book. Lets have him and Kaladin meet in some hugely epic way and perhaps get him and Adolin dueling)

Sadeas deserves to die, but I don't really see it happening anytime soon. With him gone, we'd lose one of Elhokar's most loyal, and that could get Dalinar in a whole mess of trouble...
Szeth can't die until he redeems himself at least slightly by killing someone who deserves it. I know that he can get redeemed.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 11:25:20 PM by KhyEllie »

Lord Terrisman

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2010, 03:15:48 AM »
I agree with you on that last note.  Sadeas deserves to die but he definitely needs to be there to be an antagonist for Dalinar.

Kykeon

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2010, 06:21:58 AM »
@Erunion
I don't want to start splitting hairs, but the type of compulsion you speak of is a weave developed from the intuitive weaves of wilder novices and exclusively used by Verin Mathwin.
Most other forms simply instill an irresistable urge to obey in the victim.
That being said; it's not a bad idea, but I'd be a little bit dissapointed.

Kykeon

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2010, 06:22:26 AM »
@Erunion
I don't want to start splitting hairs, but the type of compulsion you speak of is a weave developed from the intuitive weaves of wilder novices and exclusively used by Verin Mathwin.
Most other forms simply instill an irresistable urge to obey in the victim.
That being said; it's not a bad idea, but I'd be a little bit dissapointed.

Andrew the Great

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2010, 07:26:24 AM »
If the Oathstone works like compulsion, I'd be a little put out as well. I think it's much cooler that Szeth's sense of honor is so strong that it keeps him living a life he hates to maintain it.
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CabbyHat

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2010, 01:34:18 PM »
You know how it says, somewhere, that one of the three viewpoint characters would ruin the world?† (I don't remember where, but that means that either Dalinar, Shallan, or Kaladin are going to do something really stupid.)† My bet is on Kaladin.† He just seems too easily embittered, and while he did a ton of good in this first book, I can easily see him turning into a much shadier guy as we get deeper into the series.

I mean, once he gets his powers developed, he'll be just as unstoppable as Szeth--but without any random oaths to anybody else.† I can see him going Loose Cannon on Roshar brightlords sometime in the future.†

Dalinar or Adolin might never kill Sadeas, but Kaladin?† Oh, boy.

Random oaths? Like, say, "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves?"
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EvilNuff

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2010, 03:42:03 PM »
If the Oathstone works like compulsion...

It doesn't, see reply #33 in this thread from me.  There is ample evidence in the book that they are not compulsion.

Kykeon

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Re: WoK: Top 5 Villians That Really Really Need to Die (*Spoilers*)
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2010, 05:12:53 PM »
If the Oathstone works like compulsion...

It doesn't, see reply #33 in this thread from me.† There is ample evidence in the book that they are not compulsion.
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However, some folks (namely Erunion) tried to argue 'around' that fact. ;D