Author Topic: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)  (Read 3072 times)

happyman

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Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« on: September 06, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »
I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on).  Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought.  The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point.  No specifics, just numbers.  It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all.  I'm going to shut up now... :-X

*********************************tWoK spoilers****************************






I'd like to see a clarification on this.  I mean, it's pretty clear from tWoK that there would have to have been two shards on Sel at some point---Odium, and at least one other (the Dor *really* doesn't sound like Odium's magic, and anyway, Odium's visit was brief, although what "brief" means for a shard is  a good question.).  But why would there be a third?
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Munin

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Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 05:27:49 PM »
I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.

I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.
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happyman

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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 05:34:45 PM »
I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.

I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.

Or better yet, that Jaddeth is really Odium, or at the very least that Odium inspired the Derethi religion.  Given the emphasis on war, that could work.

I would note that Wyrn almost certainly has a direct line to a shard, somehow, and not a nice one, either.  He's able to tell the future to some extent.  Given what we've seen of the cosmere, that just screams "A shard is involved somehow."
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Chaos

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Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 05:57:16 PM »
I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on).  Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought.  The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point.  No specifics, just numbers.  It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all.  I'm going to shut up now... :-X

*********************************tWoK spoilers****************************






I'd like to see a clarification on this.  I mean, it's pretty clear from tWoK that there would have to have been two shards on Sel at some point---Odium, and at least one other (the Dor *really* doesn't sound like Odium's magic, and anyway, Odium's visit was brief, although what "brief" means for a shard is  a good question.).  But why would there be a third?

The fact that the epigraph author mentions two entities that Odium killed: Aona and Skai. Also, there's the word "skaze", appearing once in Elantris, which I imagine is related to Skai.

Thus, we have two Shards on Sel (Aona and Skai), and Odium was there for a brief time.

I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.

I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.

Or better yet, that Jaddeth is really Odium, or at the very least that Odium inspired the Derethi religion.  Given the emphasis on war, that could work.

I would note that Wyrn almost certainly has a direct line to a shard, somehow, and not a nice one, either.  He's able to tell the future to some extent.  Given what we've seen of the cosmere, that just screams "A shard is involved somehow."

I believe that Wyrn, Dahkor, and Jaddeth are related to Skai. Here's evidence:

Quote from: Elantris, page 479 hardback
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."

Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.

Therefore, I believe that the burden of proof is on others if you want to say Odium is related to Jaddeth :)
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Munin

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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 06:42:57 PM »
Quote from: Elantris, page 479 hardback
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."

Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Not necessarily related. It could also be that the Skaze are another religion or organization on Sel.

You could be right, though.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Chaos

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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 06:44:45 PM »
Quote from: Elantris, page 479 hardback
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."

Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Not necessarily related. It could also be that the Skaze are another religion or organization on Sel.

You could be right, though.

What if I told you that Skaze are like evil Seons? :P Would that help my case?
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happyman

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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 06:46:27 PM »
I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on).  Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought.  The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point.  No specifics, just numbers.  It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all.  I'm going to shut up now... :-X

*********************************tWoK spoilers****************************






I'd like to see a clarification on this.  I mean, it's pretty clear from tWoK that there would have to have been two shards on Sel at some point---Odium, and at least one other (the Dor *really* doesn't sound like Odium's magic, and anyway, Odium's visit was brief, although what "brief" means for a shard is  a good question.).  But why would there be a third?

The fact that the epigraph author mentions two entities that Odium killed: Aona and Skai. Also, there's the word "skaze", appearing once in Elantris, which I imagine is related to Skai.

Thus, we have two Shards on Sel (Aona and Skai), and Odium was there for a brief time.

I think the theory is that you have the Dor, Jaddeth, and Odium.

I'm unsure about Jaddeth, though. We really don't see any indication of whether or not the religion is true.

Or better yet, that Jaddeth is really Odium, or at the very least that Odium inspired the Derethi religion.  Given the emphasis on war, that could work.

I would note that Wyrn almost certainly has a direct line to a shard, somehow, and not a nice one, either.  He's able to tell the future to some extent.  Given what we've seen of the cosmere, that just screams "A shard is involved somehow."

I believe that Wyrn, Dahkor, and Jaddeth are related to Skai. Here's evidence:

Quote from: Elantris, page 479 hardback
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."

Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.

Therefore, I believe that the burden of proof is on others if you want to say Odium is related to Jaddeth :)

That's a pretty good argument.  I know Brandon has name-dropped the powers before.

It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got.  It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.
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Munin

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 06:46:53 PM »
Quote from: Elantris, page 479 hardback
Dilaf laughed, tapping Raoden on the side of the face with the tip of his sword. "The Skaze are right, then. Elantrians are not indestructible."

Direct evidence Skai is related to the Fjordell powers, as Skai->Skaze is too close to be ignored.
Not necessarily related. It could also be that the Skaze are another religion or organization on Sel.

You could be right, though.

What if I told you that Skaze are like evil Seons? :P Would that help my case?
Oh, right... I seem to recall reading about that somewhere. In the annotations, I think.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Chaos

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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 06:55:56 PM »
Quote
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got.  It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.

Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.
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happyman

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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 07:29:09 PM »
Quote
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got.  It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.

Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.

Actually, I was really resisting this theory.  I wanted there to be only one Shard on Sel.  And then I re-read Hoid's letter (yes, I'm certain Hoid was the author) and realized that yeah, there were two Shard's in Sel.  One was Aona and the other was Skai.  That's by far the best reading of the text.  Odium's visit was probably quite eventful.  However, I actually believe it occurred well before the events of Elantris, at least most of it.

Why?  Because I believe that the Aons and the Skaze are the splinters that Hoid talks about.  The splinters of the original Shards.  Think about it:  Nobody knows how they are made.  They seem to be immortal (baring some odd conditions that appear only in the deleted scenes).  They are conscious---I can't emphasize that enough.  In Mistborn, in order to make humans self-aware, Preservation had to sacrifice part of himself, but these Seons just float around conscious as though it was nothing special.  And in some sense, they seem to embody an ideal.  Kind of like---a shard.  The Seons would be shattered Aona and the Skaze would be shattered Skai.

If I'm correct, then the reason nobody knows how to make Seons is that you can't.  They just exist and get passed down because they've existed ever since Odium's visit.  They have Aons at their center because that is the nature of the power they represent, the power that was shattered.

Anyway, it probably has some holes.  Interesting, anyway.
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sortitus

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Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 03:00:18 AM »
It seems to be about as spoilerish as the thread titles of the WoK threads. I haven't seen anything earth-shattering here. Basically just a few names we didn't know at the time.

But yes, this extra information does come from WoK.

(Man, I was able to stick to 666 posts for so long. It's sad to see it go. EDIT: Long=two days? I spend way too much time on this site.)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 03:03:31 AM by sortitus »
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Munin

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 04:03:25 AM »
(Man, I was able to stick to 666 posts for so long. It's sad to see it go. EDIT: Long=two days? I spend way too much time on this site.)
Or not enough.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

sortitus

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 04:14:24 AM »
Or not enough
Yes, yes. It must be that. I must stay here more. I must refresh the unread topics page every minute. I must read everything in real-time.  I must code out a program that converts the entire TWG into a chat room on my personal computer. But first, I must get that intravenous feeding system I've always wanted.

Aside: Something about that just sounded a whole lot like a friend of mine. Are you secretly stalking me from Colorado, SEM? Hmm? Hmm? HMM? It's cool if you are. Even though I know you aren't. Did I just change who I was talking to half way through this paragraph? Only if Munin is not who I'm fairly certain he is not, but could possibly be. Did I just change who I was talking to twice in this paragraph?... *headasplode*
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Munin

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 04:16:55 AM »
I live in California.

Or do I?
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Fireborn

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 07:53:08 AM »
This topic has ever so quickly left the straight and narrow of on topicness and has veered into the wild, wild wastes of mind screwdom.  And it took, what, three, four posts?  Dang, you might as well have invoked Gamespren on us!
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