Author Topic: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*  (Read 7499 times)

Chaos

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 09:33:58 PM »
Man, I sure hope he's a major viewpoint character in a later novel. That would be awesome.
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Munin

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 09:49:43 PM »
Man, I sure hope he's a major viewpoint character in a later novel. That would be awesome.
Agreed.

Although I'm afraid he won't be. He knows too much, and seeing things from his point of view could easily spoil plot points. I remember how limited the Vasher chapters were in Warbreaker, to avoid spoiling the surprise that he was a good guy. I mean, they still turned out well, but you didn't learn much about his character until you started seeing him through Vivenna's eyes.

We can still hope, though.
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Chaos

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 09:55:11 PM »
Well, there's going to be ten different viewpoint characters like Kaladin (though there may be a second Kaladin book). Dalinar and Shallan, obviously, will get books. Szeth will get a book (squee!). Even with a second Kaladin book, that's five out of ten Stormlight Archive novels. [Source: that interview Josh, Mi'ch, and I did with Brandon for 17th Shard, which, um, hasn't come live yet. Soon!]

I'd think that Taln would get a very late book. Without him, we wouldn't get a unique perspective on certain things that have been lost forever. We wouldn't know as much about Hemalurgy in MB3 without Marsh's viewpoints, for example. I think that he will be a major character, but not for a while.
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Munin

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2010, 12:21:41 AM »
So, no one has any ideas about the missing statue of Shalash in the prologue?

All I can think of is that maybe Shalash is female, and her statue doesn't fit modern standards in some way (not wearing the glove, etc.). But that's just me grasping at straws.
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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2010, 01:11:08 AM »
how do you know they are called dawnshards? what have i missed?
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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 01:19:56 AM »
Sudden thought:  We know the almighty is dead, right?  What if the Almighty is not a mere shard but is the severed concienceness of Whole Adonalsium?  The way he just repeats things in a loop to Dalinar in the visions kind of reminded me of the description of the Mistspirit?  I'm not sure what that would mean for the heralds though...

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Munin

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 01:42:54 AM »
how do you know they are called dawnshards? what have i missed?
There are several reference to dawnshards throughout the book. The first one to come to mind are when the Almighty is finally explaining things to Dalinar.
Sudden thought:† We know the almighty is dead, right?† What if the Almighty is not a mere shard but is the severed concienceness of Whole Adonalsium?† The way he just repeats things in a loop to Dalinar in the visions kind of reminded me of the description of the Mistspirit?† I'm not sure what that would mean for the heralds though...
I think it's more likely that the visions are just a recording.
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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 01:42:26 PM »
I think it's more likely that the visions are just a recording.

Mal. Guy killed me, Mal. He killed me with a sword. How weird is that?

Sorry but the idea of them being a recording makes sense, but this is what got stuck in my head.
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sdelu

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2010, 02:19:01 AM »
Didn't Brandon explain a long time ago that there would be a viewpoint character who was an immortal breaking under the strain of saving the world (or some such thing?).  I think that sounds like it could very well be Taln....

As for the rest of the Heralds, well, I for one do not believe for a second that they are dead.

Well, there's going to be ten different viewpoint characters like Kaladin (though there may be a second Kaladin book). Dalinar and Shallan, obviously, will get books. Szeth will get a book (squee!). Even with a second Kaladin book, that's five out of ten Stormlight Archive novels. [Source: that interview Josh, Mi'ch, and I did with Brandon for 17th Shard, which, um, hasn't come live yet. Soon!]

Eh.  I'm not sure I'm very excited about that :(  10 viewpoint characters will eventually mean some are left out of the later books.

jacobfake

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2010, 06:28:40 AM »
As far as the Heralds being alive or not goes, if they die they're blades vanish, (quoted somewhere earlier in this thread) so if they're still alive, then where are the blades? It's possible they're like off in a distant land (wherever the prelude takes place) but if the Parshmen are voidbringers that would be like shattered plains or the Parshendi homeland, plus on US Hardcover 997 the Almighty says "And...without the Dawnshards...Well, I have done what I can." seeming to imply that the Dawnshards are no longer accessible to humans, as in gone because the Heralds are dead. Also, in the prelude Kalak says that the Heralds freely took up the burden of being heralds, as in they were normal men before, which would seem to imply that once they abandon the oathpact they go back to being mortal and die.
    -one thing, though, is that the Almighty seems to imply that there will be no Dawnshards available to humans and yet when Taln shows up it seems like it's "Oh hey I just got released from suffering because another desolation is here." which would seem to mean that he will be fighting on their side and that that shardblade will be available to them. But maybe the Almighty just meant like without all the shardblades.

     -also, what's up with the Heralds even suffering in between Desolations in the first place? That seems to be the Oathpact, but I originally read it like suffering in hell, which would seem more like guys on Odium's side than the Almighty. It's possible they like agreed to suffer in order to wield amazing powers, and that's what the Oathpact was, except where are they suffering and why would Odium ever agree to that deal/ if he didn't then who did?

      -also, if he came back for the last desolation, why does he collapse? What's he so tired out from, and how could he not have failed? Does anyone want to take a guess on what his time line is for the story? As in, first he's betrayed and sent to suffer. Then the last desolation comes and he's released. Then he goes to Kholinar to help out. Except, what happened immediately before going to Kholinar or if nothing then what does he think he did wrong?

I guess I'm mostly just looking for more theories on these things.

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2010, 07:15:17 AM »
I think it's more likely that the visions are just a recording.

Mal. Guy killed me, Mal. He killed me with a sword. How weird is that?

Sorry but the idea of them being a recording makes sense, but this is what got stuck in my head.
lol
Didn't Brandon explain a long time ago that there would be a viewpoint character who was an immortal breaking under the strain of saving the world (or some such thing?).  I think that sounds like it could very well be Taln....

As for the rest of the Heralds, well, I for one do not believe for a second that they are dead.

Well, there's going to be ten different viewpoint characters like Kaladin (though there may be a second Kaladin book). Dalinar and Shallan, obviously, will get books. Szeth will get a book (squee!). Even with a second Kaladin book, that's five out of ten Stormlight Archive novels. [Source: that interview Josh, Mi'ch, and I did with Brandon for 17th Shard, which, um, hasn't come live yet. Soon!]

Eh.  I'm not sure I'm very excited about that :(  10 viewpoint characters will eventually mean some are left out of the later books.
What he means is, and I heard Brandon say this at one of his signings (in answer to a question I asked! squee!), that each book focuses around a particular character.  But that person is not the only viewpoint we get.  In WoK, the main character is Kaladin.  He gets the majority of the pages, all the flashbacks are for his storyline, the major character climaxes tend to be his, etc.  The way he put it is that WoK is "six short stories (interludes), a novella(Szeth's chapters, interludes, and the prologue) and three novels (Shallan, Dalinar and Kaladin, but with the emphasis on Kaladin) all in one book."  Each book will have a different character be presented in the way Kaladin is here.  And we're going to get a ton more of different viewpoints as the story goes on in the form of interludes and major characters like Shallan and Dalinar.  Overall, a freakin buttload of stuff.
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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2010, 02:00:23 AM »
So, no one has any ideas about the missing statue of Shalash in the prologue?

All I can think of is that maybe Shalash is female, and her statue doesn't fit modern standards in some way (not wearing the glove, etc.). But that's just me grasping at straws.

The whole thing with the statue of Shalash bothered me too, but we never got any hints about it.  Another thing I was bothered by that we get no explanation on:
Quote
Tiny, near-invisible spren were floating out of the beastís body, vanishing into the air. They looked like the tongues of smoke that might come off a candle after being snuff ed. Nobody knew what kind of spren they were; you only saw them around the freshly killed bodies of greatshells.

I posted this in another thread, but figured it bore repeating since it was mentioned in this one.  Seems from this interview, that Taln will a POV character:  http://yetistomper.blogspot.com/2010/09/brandon-sanderson-interview-stompingmad.html

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2010, 02:49:40 AM »
Is it possible that the guy is just freaking exhausted from suffering infinite torment for hundreds of years? 

The fact that it looked as if he had just swam a great distance seems, to me, to suggest that he just zapped in from wherever shardblades come from... you know, how they're coated in moisture when they first zap in?  He was coated in moisture, too. 

Of course, there's also the mention of the twigs and leaves in his beard, which is pretty friggin' weird, too.  Don't know how to explain that.

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2010, 03:25:31 AM »
Is it possible that the guy is just freaking exhausted from suffering infinite torment for hundreds of years?†

The fact that it looked as if he had just swam a great distance seems, to me, to suggest that he just zapped in from wherever shardblades come from... you know, how they're coated in moisture when they first zap in?† He was coated in moisture, too.†

Of course, there's also the mention of the twigs and leaves in his beard, which is pretty friggin' weird, too.† Don't know how to explain that.
Maybe he was fighting in a forest, then traveled through the Shardrealm (for lack of a better word)?
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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2010, 07:54:10 AM »
I have a wild theory.

The Heralds entered into an oathpact which basically helps stop the voidbringers from taking over, but we have no idea what it is.

From what I have thought about, I think the oathpact basically states that the Heralds will fight the voidbringers on Roshar using a splinter from one of the shards (whether or not it is the Almighty or another shard I don't know) which is physically manifested in the dawnshard. But once the desolation is over they must go to this mysterious other place (Shadesmar possibly) and endur years of torture, in which that time the voidbringers are powerless, mindless creatures known as parshmen. But after some time the Heralds can no longer take the torture and return to Roshar, at which time the voidbringers come again, they fight, they win and return for more torture in an endless cycle.

Talenel has thus failed because he finally cracked under the torture and the voidbringers are returning for another desolation.

***

Completely separate, I think the Heralds that gave up on the Oathpact are still alive. When I read the prelude all those months ago I was under the impression that the Heralds could only be killed, not die from natural deaths, and their dawnshards are untouchable by anyone but them, just sitting there waiting for them to return and claim their blades. However I have no proof for this other than making a nice story.
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