Author Topic: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*  (Read 8270 times)

jjb

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« on: September 06, 2010, 07:24:58 AM »
I don't know if I completely missed something in the discussions or if no one cares about them, but I just reread the Prelude and now I'm interested in what has happened to the Heralds.

I know that nine of the ten abandoned the Oathpact, but what does that mean? They were immortal, so does that mean that they still live on Roshar, but just decided to stay out of the problems of the world? Or did they become mortal when they gave up their swords and they're 4500 years dead.

The one Herald who didn't betray the Oathpact, Talenel, died once again at the end of WoK, so now Roshar is completely on its own. His sword did not vanish at the end, so I assume that means he's out of the cycle of life, death, hell, life.

Does whoever picks up his sword take his place as a Herald or did they just win a Shardblade 2.0 with no responsibilities?



« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 03:08:04 AM by Brenna »

Nightfire107

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 07:55:16 AM »
was the guy that dies talanel? i missed that.
"We're Bridge Four, we've been around. We've liven in the crem and been used as bait. If it helps you survive, it's good. That's all that needs to be said about it."

jjb

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 08:18:29 AM »
Yup.


Quote
p. 16
"Talanel," Kalak said. His was the only Blade unaccounted for."

Quote
p. 1001
"Who am I? I... I am Talanel'Elin, Stonesinew, Herald of the Almighty. The Desolation has come. Oh, God... it has come. And I have failed."

Comatose

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 904
  • Fell Points: 1
  • A Shard of Adonalsium
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 09:33:26 AM »
And how do the heralds fit in with shards and such?  Are they a higher or lower being?  Might hoid be one of the heralds?
"Look, I'm just trying to change the world, okay?  I don't have time for a grudge match with every poser in a parka!"
- Dr. Horrible

"There's always another secret..."
- Kelsier

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 03:47:24 PM »
Two other things that I'm curious about.

First off, what's the significance of Talanel having dark eyes? Hoid implies that there's something about the difference between lighteyes and darkeyes that's significant, but doesn't elaborate further.

Also, in the prologue, when Szeth is going to assassinate the king, he notes that the statue of Shalash is missing from the set of the ten Heralds. Do we know anything about this guy? Szeth says it's because the king is "too devout" in his Vorin worship.


You also might want to change the thread title to "major spoilers", since we're mentioning that Talanel shows up at the end and dies (maybe).
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 04:53:30 PM »
Actually, I'm pretty sure Talanel is not dead.  We're supposed to think he is at the end of the book, but that's because we've been carefully primed with all the Shardblades floating around.

Dawnblades act differently.  When their bearer dies, the blade disappears.
Nature hates being reified.

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 05:20:04 PM »
Actually, I'm pretty sure Talanel is not dead.  We're supposed to think he is at the end of the book, but that's because we've been carefully primed with all the Shardblades floating around.

Dawnblades act differently.  When their bearer dies, the blade disappears.
And even if Talanel died, that doesn't mean he won't come back. Kalak mentioned dying many times in the past, and he was still around.

No bets on how long it takes for him to return, though.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Chaos

  • Administrator
  • Level 36
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
  • Fell Points: 3
  • The Original Hero of Ages
    • View Profile
    • Eric Lake
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 06:05:54 PM »
I... I never read it as Talanel dying... Maybe I wasn't paying attention, however.

I don't know if I completely missed something in the discussions or if no one cares about them, but I just reread the Prelude and now I'm interested in what has happened to the Heralds.

I know that nine of the ten abandoned the Oathpact, but what does that mean? They were immortal, so does that mean that they still live on Roshar, but just decided to stay out of the problems of the world? Or did they become mortal when they gave up their swords and they're 4500 years dead.

The one Herald who didn't betray the Oathpact, Talenel, died once again at the end of WoK, so now Roshar is completely on its own. His sword did not vanish at the end, so I assume that means he's out of the cycle of life, death, hell, life.

Does whoever picks up his sword take his place as a Herald or did they just win a Shardblade 2.0 with no responsibilities?

Since its an "Oathpact", and it says that they chose their burdens willingly, they probably decided to create this Oathpact as a way to bind Odium/Voidbringers. Sounds reasonable to me.

And how do the heralds fit in with shards and such?  Are they a higher or lower being?  Might hoid be one of the heralds?

I'd imagine that the Heralds were given powers from the Almighty. Thus, the Heralds and the Knights Radiant below them have powers coming from that Shard.

I do not think Hoid could possibly be a Herald.
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.

Fireborn

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 307
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Geniusness Explosion!
    • View Profile
    • Rampant And Rhetoric
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 06:15:24 PM »
Well, depending on the time frame of when the Almighty made those visions that Dalinar is just now having, he could have died and the Heralds are Splinters, even though I'm not sure what that means exactly.

Where does it say that Talanel is Darkeyes?  Cuz that would be SO cool!
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 06:41:16 PM »
Where does it say that Talanel is Darkeyes?  Cuz that would be SO cool!
Last page of the book.
Quote
He steadied himself against the gate door, and a lock of hair moved from the side of his face, exposing his eyes. Dark brown eyes, like a man of the lower class. Those eyes were wild, dazed.

And yeah, I'm not convinced he died, either. That being said, do we know for sure that Dawnshards vanish when their wielders die?
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Chaos

  • Administrator
  • Level 36
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
  • Fell Points: 3
  • The Original Hero of Ages
    • View Profile
    • Eric Lake
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 06:43:09 PM »
Reading it again, it seems like Taln just collapsed. That doesn't mean he died.
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 06:51:13 PM »
Reading it again, it seems like Taln just collapsed. That doesn't mean he died.
Well, it depends. If Dawnblades vanish when their wielder dies, then he's still alive. If they act like Shardblades and vanish when you go unconscious, and clatter down next to your body when you die, then he's a goner.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

happyman

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 828
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 07:34:27 PM »
Reading it again, it seems like Taln just collapsed. That doesn't mean he died.
Well, it depends. If Dawnblades vanish when their wielder dies, then he's still alive. If they act like Shardblades and vanish when you go unconscious, and clatter down next to your body when you die, then he's a goner.

Here's the relevant quote, from the prelude (page 16):

Quote
Seven magnificent swords stood proudly here, driven point-first into the stone ground.  Each was a masterly work of art, flowing in design, inscribed with glyphs and patterns.  He recognized each one.  If their masters had died, the blades would have vanished.
Nature hates being reified.

jjb

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 96
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 07:41:45 PM »
Reading it again, it seems like Taln just collapsed. That doesn't mean he died.
Well, it depends. If Dawnblades vanish when their wielder dies, then he's still alive. If they act like Shardblades and vanish when you go unconscious, and clatter down next to your body when you die, then he's a goner.

Here's the relevant quote, from the prelude (page 16):

Quote
Seven magnificent swords stood proudly here, driven point-first into the stone ground.  Each was a masterly work of art, flowing in design, inscribed with glyphs and patterns.  He recognized each one.  If their masters had died, the blades would have vanished.

I guess I assumed too soon that Telanel had died. Him collapsing combined with saying that he had failed seemed to indicate to me that he was dead (the Desolation had come before and that didn't mean the Heralds had failed). But since the sword didn't vanish, he's probably still alive.

Munin

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 256
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: WoK: The Heralds *Minor Spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 08:51:23 PM »
Reading it again, it seems like Taln just collapsed. That doesn't mean he died.
Well, it depends. If Dawnblades vanish when their wielder dies, then he's still alive. If they act like Shardblades and vanish when you go unconscious, and clatter down next to your body when you die, then he's a goner.

Here's the relevant quote, from the prelude (page 16):

Quote
Seven magnificent swords stood proudly here, driven point-first into the stone ground.  Each was a masterly work of art, flowing in design, inscribed with glyphs and patterns.  He recognized each one.  If their masters had died, the blades would have vanished.
Well, it's also technically possible that Talanel was using a Shardblade instead of his Dawnshard, but I agree that he's probably not dead.

Not yet, at least.

This should prove very interesting in the second book. Will people not believe him because he's a darkeyes? Will they think he stole the blade? I could easily see him getting locked up somehow and separated from his sword... and I don't know if the Heralds have any other powers that would let him escape.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.