Author Topic: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**  (Read 1842 times)

Hobbun

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Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« on: September 03, 2010, 01:46:37 PM »
Once again, MAJOR SPOILERS below. Stop now if you have not read Elantris.





Well, last night I finally finished Elantris. And I will say I really enjoyed it. However, I do have some questions.

The solution. Raoden draws the chasm line with the stick in the dirt (from the pool near Elantris down to Kae) to complete the picture so the AonDor is completely open and accessible. Correct?

My question is, isn’t that a bit of redundancy? I mean wasn’t the AonDor cut off originally because of the chasm? Why would Raoden need to draw something that already had happened (the chasm forming)? I am probably missing something, but why I am throwing this question here.

Second question. As Brandon even says in his annotations section, Elantris is the source of the AonDor. But I had thought the Elantrians (however many years back it may have been) created Elantris and doing so in using the AonDor. If Elantris ‘powers’ the AonDor, how could the city have been built in the first place?

Third question, closure. I may have missed it, but what happened with some of the other ‘new’ Elantrians?  Taan? Can’t remember his name, but the one who did all the cleaning. I remember reading that they were ‘dead’ when the monks attacked, but as we know, it’s very hard for Elantrians truly to die. So were they brought back when Raoden completed the restoration of the AonDor? Or did they true die? And if that is the case, I would think they earned a spot for their own funeral, as Saolin and Katara had earned.

And just to clarify, not bringing all these questions up in being critical of the book, I did truly enjoy it, but was left with these questions that I had to ask.  Lol

Now I am going to take a bit of a break and move onto the first Alcatraz book. Should take me a night, two at the most.    :)

Munin

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2010, 02:18:37 PM »
Elantris was basically a giant map/model of the land itself, which was required for it to channel the Dor.

1. When the earthquake created the chasm, the land no longer matched Elantris (since the chasm did not run through Elantris). It was still there, but trying to reach it would be like using a map of Africa to find your way around Texas. Once Elantris was "repaired", they could once more reach the Dor.

2. I'm not really sure, here. I just woke up, so someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the sense that AonDor is just one specific manifestation of the Dor as a whole.

Or maybe the city was always there, created by the Shard of Adonalsium on Sel.

3. I don't think you find out what happened to them.

By the way, if you haven't read it yet, I recommend  you read The Hope of Elantris, a short story Brandon wrote to fill in a minor plot hole.
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Hobbun

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2010, 02:34:24 PM »
I thought it was AonDor? I could swear when I heard Raoden talking about it, he always said it with both (Aon and Dor). I could be wrong.

But as for the first question, yes, I understand that the earthquake cause the chasm. But that is my confusion, when the earthquake happened, and the chasm opened up, it changed the lands geography and therefore changed the shapes for the Dor.

But it is Raoden’s solution that is puzzling. From how I read it (and also reading Brandon’s annotation), he drew the stick in the ground to represent the chasm so the geography matched the change and therefore the Dor was fully accessible.

However, I thought it was the chasm in the first place that made the change to the geography? Why would Raoden need to add it (with the stick)? This is where I am getting confused.

As for the other two questions, glad I am not the only one who is not sure on those answers or noticed they were not answered.

I will have to take a look at “The Hope of Elantris”.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 02:36:30 PM by Hobbun »

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2010, 02:37:49 PM »
I thought it was AonDor? I could swear when I heard Raoden talking about it, he always said it with both (Aon and Dor). I could be wrong.

But as for the first question, yes, I understand that the earthquake cause the chasm. But that is my confusion, when the earthquake happened, and the chasm opened up, it changed the lands geography and therefore changed the shapes for the Dor.

But it is Raoden’s solution that is puzzling. From how I read it (and also reading Brandon’s annotation), he drew the stick in the ground to represent the chasm so the geography matched the change and therefore the Dor was fully accessible.

However, I thought it was the chasm in the first place that made the change to the geography? Why would Raoden need to add it (with the stick)? This is where I am getting confused.

As for the other two questions, glad I am not the only one who is not sure on those answers or noticed they were not answered.

I will have to take a look at “The Hope of Elantris”.  Thanks.


He had to correct the glyph, because the glyph in the middle of town (or wherever it was, i dont remember, it's been a while) was tied directly to the geography. When the chasm split open, the glyph was no longer correct. It needed to be corrected. Thats what he did.
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Hobbun

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 02:48:22 PM »
Yes, of course. *duh moment*  He wasn’t drawing the chasm, but drawing the line branching from Elantris to Kae. The box (representing Elantris) and then the four lines going out north, south, east and west, each of them to a circle that represented a town. The line going to Kae (which I believe was east)was broken.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 02:57:06 PM by Hobbun »

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2010, 03:21:54 PM »
Yes, of course. *duh moment*  He wasn’t drawing the chasm, but drawing the line branching from Elantris to Kae. The box (representing Elantris) and then the four lines going out north, south, east and west, each of them to a circle that represented a town. The line going to Kae (which I believe was east)was broken.

Thank you!


Um, hate to rain on this parade, but that's not the answer.  The original Aon was unchanged by the earthquake.

As simple as I can make, here's what happened:

(1) Elantris was built to channel the Dor.  It was deliberately created to be an enormous Aon which would endow the Elantrians with far more power than they had previously had.  (Minor speculation on my part, but seems very likely.)

(2) As an Aon, it's shape was tied to the land.  It could only effectively channel the Dor because it matched the shape of the land.

(3) When the Reod hit, the land changed.  Elantris did not.  Therefore it was no longer effectively channeling the Dor; only a trickle was getting through (which was probably worse than none getting through).

(4) To restore the full flow of the Dor, the shape of the Elantrian Aon had to be changed to match the land; the chasm line had to be added.

(5) Raoden did so.  Problem solved.
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Hobbun

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 03:33:27 PM »
Ok, so I was right at first, Raoden was adding the chasm line. But again, that does not make sense. If Raoden added the chasm line (with the stick) through Elantris, it would make sense. Because as you said, Elantris was unchanged and did not have the chasm going through it.

But from at least how I read it, Raoden started the near the pool, which was not inside of Elantris (right outside the wall from how I understood it), and then ran all the way to Kae. Which then brings up the point, the chasm should have already been there as it would have already been created from the earthquake as the path he ran was not inside of Elantris and would not have been unchanged.

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 05:10:14 PM »
... I got the sense that AonDor is just one specific manifestation of the Dor as a whole.
This is correct. All magic in Elantris is powered by a single shard. The Dakhor monks use the same magic, just they modify their bodies with their local runes instead of drawing them wherever they go. This is why they don't lose power away from their homeland (their bodies wouldn't revert just because they left the land they use the runes of).

I think that basically, if you draw a map centered around you, it will work the same as the Elantrian magic no matter where you are. So, one could feasibly (well, and Elantrian, anyway) make a map of the entire world, allowing them access to the Dor anywhere on-world. I assume that it wasn't quite as simple as just making a map, but once you got what stood for what, making a more complex map would be somewhat simple. Elantris could probably be expanded to incorporate a larger area, making the Elantris-centered magic work further out.

I was fairly certain that Raoden ran from the Pool to the center of Elantris, then[/i] drew the corrected Dor. He needed to be at the central point for him to fix it properly.
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Hobbun

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 06:40:49 PM »
This is correct. All magic in Elantris is powered by a single shard. The Dakhor monks use the same magic, just they modify their bodies with their local runes instead of drawing them wherever they go. This is why they don't lose power away from their homeland (their bodies wouldn't revert just because they left the land they use the runes of).

I think that basically, if you draw a map centered around you, it will work the same as the Elantrian magic no matter where you are. So, one could feasibly (well, and Elantrian, anyway) make a map of the entire world, allowing them access to the Dor anywhere on-world. I assume that it wasn't quite as simple as just making a map, but once you got what stood for what, making a more complex map would be somewhat simple. Elantris could probably be expanded to incorporate a larger area, making the Elantris-centered magic work further out.


Interesting theory. I had thought the Dor 'magic' was kind of weak with the limitation of distance from Elantris. But as you said, if they expanded the city, that could make it more feasible to use the Dor further out. For example, maybe Raoden could have taken Sarene back home with him in using Aon Tia when they were at Teod.

I was fairly certain that Raoden ran from the Pool to the center of Elantris, then[/i] drew the corrected Dor. He needed to be at the central point for him to fix it properly.

Are you sure? I will have to look tonight when I get home. The impression I got is he never went back into the city proper (of Elantris) when running off from the pool. He just ran straight down the slope, trying to get to Kae as quickly as possible.

happyman

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 06:42:52 PM »
Ok, so I was right at first, Raoden was adding the chasm line. But again, that does not make sense. If Raoden added the chasm line (with the stick) through Elantris, it would make sense. Because as you said, Elantris was unchanged and did not have the chasm going through it.

But from at least how I read it, Raoden started the near the pool, which was not inside of Elantris (right outside the wall from how I understood it), and then ran all the way to Kae. Which then brings up the point, the chasm should have already been there as it would have already been created from the earthquake as the path he ran was not inside of Elantris and would not have been unchanged.


OK, now I see the confusion.

Raoden was outside Elantris.  The Aon that powered Elantris was the Aon Rao.  Elantris and the four cities around it formed, together, the entire Aon.  However, this four-city complex is not nearly as large as the land as a whole and is nowhere near the Chasm.

Thus when Raoden went to draw the chasm line, he had to go to the correct place within the four-city complex, which was outside the Elantris city walls proper, but an enormous distance from the actual chasm.  It was the placement within the larger Aon that counted.

Hopes this clears up the confusion.

EDIT: I found a discussion of the potential discrepancy here.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 11:10:42 PM by happyman »
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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 09:59:13 PM »
... I got the sense that AonDor is just one specific manifestation of the Dor as a whole.
This is correct. All magic in Elantris is powered by a single shard. The Dakhor monks use the same magic, just they modify their bodies with their local runes instead of drawing them wherever they go. This is why they don't lose power away from their homeland (their bodies wouldn't revert just because they left the land they use the runes of).

Well, maybe. (Id say more but you should read Way of Kings)
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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2010, 10:25:23 PM »
Chaos! He knows what he's talking about. Not me. Listen to that guy.
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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 05:37:04 AM »
I'm going to reiterate what Chaos said regarding the number of Shards on Sel (planet that Elantris is set on).  Read tWoK, it changes a lot of what was previously thought.  The current theory is two Shards, with three at one point.  No specifics, just numbers.  It's not really a spoiler for either book, seeing as it's less than halfway through tWoK and not mentioned in Elantris at all.  I'm going to shut up now... :-X
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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2010, 06:19:36 AM »

EDIT: I found a discussion of the potential discrepancy here.

Interesting. So from what understand per Brandon, the chasm line was supposed to be in Elantris, or at least start in it. Which makes more sense to me. But I guess just from reading, and it could be my misunderstanding the location, but it didn't seem like Raoden started inside the city proper, he began at the pool and went down the hill all the way to Kae.

Or is the pool inside of Elantris? From my understanding, I thought they went down into an underground path (when going there with the beggar at the point of Hoed, and later with Saolin) and came up under the city wall outside of the city.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 06:21:07 AM by Hobbun »

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Re: Finished Elantris - Questions **MAJOR SPOILERS**
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 02:32:29 AM »
Is all of this related to WoK?  If so, not to sound rude, but if you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it you started up another thread about it. I have not read WoK yet.


(Moderator Edit: I moved all the discussion veering into Way of Kings talk into another thread where you can continue talking about the connections between Elantris and WoK if you'd like. Thanks!)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 03:19:56 AM by Brenna »