Author Topic: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*  (Read 8737 times)

Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2010, 04:56:56 AM »
And is there any 'Skai' sounding word in the book?
Scadrial is all I can think of, but... I think the similarity there is just a coincidence.

Quote
I don't think it's Galladon.  Roshar is too far away for them to cover up their Elantrianness with illusion.  Also, going to Teod does not make Raoden appear less Elantrian, so I think their appearance is not tied to the city once they have fully transformed...  Clubs is every bit as grumpy as Galladon, and yet they are not considered the same person.
True, but Clubs doesn't speak Dula. And he doesn't look exactly like Galladon, either.

At the very least, the similarity is highly suspicious.

Also, it's possible that getting further from Sel (and therefore the Dor) would cause the "Elantrian-ness" to fade. Going away from Elantris means moving away from the hub of the AonDor. Moving away from Sel separates you from the Dor.

Maybe.
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Castleguard

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2010, 04:58:42 AM »
We can't really be sure what the time line is. If this is significantly after the time line of Elantris they may have learned a way to use there Aons even when they are not near Elantris. Perhaps they would be able to make some kind of Bridge and tie it to another location and connect it to Elantris somehow. I know I am reaching some but I am just saying we can't count anything out. It would be cool if you didn't just have Elantrians but Elantrians who could use Aon Dor.

Chaos

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2010, 05:24:34 AM »
There is a word related to Skai. It's "Skaze". It appears in Elantris exactly once.
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ryos

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2010, 11:19:21 AM »
This is a spoiler if you haven't read through Section 2.

Really, it is.

I mean it.

.

.

.

Ok. The section 2 epigraphs, assuming they're written by Hoid as seems extremely likely, say that the pursuers are "from the 17th shard". I don't know what that is, but if I were to conjecture wildly, I'd say it's an agglomerate of shardholders who hold the "17th shard", or servants of a single person who holds the same. In that case, the searchers probably aren't from a world we know.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2010, 02:46:48 PM »
I'm really not convinced that the part 2 epigraphs are written by Hoid. The only connection is the sarcastic tone and the knowledge of shards... and to be honest, we don't even know how much Hoid knows about the shards, and he's hardly the only sarcastic character around.
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rjl

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2010, 08:33:55 PM »
I'm pretty sure that there are only 16 shards of adonalasium, I've heard people saying something about the 17th shard being a group of people that investigates the activites of the 16 shards. I think that's info direct from Brandon, but I don't have a source.

Chaos

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2010, 11:18:05 PM »
Quote
I've heard people saying something about the 17th shard being a group of people that investigates the activites of the 16 shards. I think that's info direct from Brandon, but I don't have a source.

That's my understanding of it. They are planet-hoppers like Hoid, or something. However, I couldn't venture a guess why they are apparently immortal.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2010, 11:20:05 PM »
Quote
I've heard people saying something about the 17th shard being a group of people that investigates the activites of the 16 shards. I think that's info direct from Brandon, but I don't have a source.

That's my understanding of it. They are planet-hoppers like Hoid, or something. However, I couldn't venture a guess why they are apparently immortal.
Unless they're Elantrians.

Or infused with the power of a shard, like Rashek.
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Chaos

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2010, 06:06:39 AM »
Well, naturally.
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Nightfire107

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2010, 08:11:22 AM »
we have to consider that the timelines in this case likely stretch for millons or perhaps more/less years. The facts are that adulansium shattering made the other shards . But we are still in the dark (i presume) on how one gets a shard and creates life on a planet. Were ati and lerus from another planet and made scadriel? what about austure? we don't know enough about where the enitial "gods" come from. and brandon has said there is a distinct timeline with i believe liar of partanel( forgive spelling) at the begining. asking him question about timelines would be good. the shadesmere may be unique to roshar as well. we don't know enough about that yet. We need to find out how many shards there are. if some one could compile a "head count" of the shards we could start detirming how many potential planets in the cosmere support shard-holder dieties. Of corse if the shards can go to different planets and create different magic systems that one shard might be two dieties at different times in the cosmere timeline. lots of unorganized thought here sorry.

 "edit"Appearently my editing brain has turned off for the weekend, i apologize again. "edit"
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 10:13:40 AM by Nightfire107 »
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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2010, 09:46:19 AM »
Are we sure he was speaking dula?  The words sound similar yes, but brandon could also just be re using bits of languages that are still whirring around in his head.
Also, did we establish somewhere that Ruin and Preservation created humans from what they had seen before (or, I guess, what the used to be).  Perhaps the similar languages ended up on separate worlds in the same way, they came originally from the shards.  It's a loose guess, but just an idea.

Also, as per them losing there "Elantrian-ness" (can we find a better word), my whole point is I don't think that is possible.  When they go to Teod, their powers are SIGNIFICANTLY weaker, and yet their appearance is, as far as we know, EXACTLY the same.  If it were possible to change back in appearance, you think it would have happened at least slightly on their journey to teod, perhaps a slight darkening of the skin, or hair, but we saw none of that.  Aon dor is involved in the CHANGING of a mortal into an Elantrian.  Once they are an Elantrian, they are one.  Getting cut off from aon door completely turns them into leper style elantrians (as we saw with the "It was so beautiful" man in the book).  The interlopers were not Leper style, so unless they can work illusion on Roshar, I don't think the seekers could be Elantrians.

I know the man isn't clubs by the way, I was just trying to make the point that similarity does not mean two people are the same ;)
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ryos

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2010, 11:17:25 AM »
What most convinces me that Hoid wrote the section 2 epigraphs is this one, from Chapter 26, page 368:

Quote
I am being chased. Your friends from the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling what to do with me should they actually catch me.

The pursuers are chasing the author of the epigraphs. When we met them back in the interludes, we learned they were chasing Hoid. So, the author of the epigraphs is Hoid.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2010, 03:41:35 PM »
What most convinces me that Hoid wrote the section 2 epigraphs is this one, from Chapter 26, page 368:

Quote
I am being chased. Your friends from the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling what to do with me should they actually catch me.

The pursuers are chasing the author of the epigraphs. When we met them back in the interludes, we learned they were chasing Hoid. So, the author of the epigraphs is Hoid.
You're assuming that they were the pursuers he was talking about.

It's certainly possible, but it's not confirmed.


I know the man isn't clubs by the way, I was just trying to make the point that similarity does not mean two people are the same ;)
Well, the clincher for me is that the words aren't just similar, they're exactly the same. And the fact that he looks like Galladon, talks like Galladon (understand, friend?), and has a similar personality (if the nickname is accurate) makes it unlikely that Brandon would accidentally throw in such a major similarity.

If it were Kaladin or Dalinar or some other character using a Dula word, then yeah, I'd let it go.

But if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts like a duck...
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

happyman

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2010, 04:48:15 PM »
What most convinces me that Hoid wrote the section 2 epigraphs is this one, from Chapter 26, page 368:

Quote
I am being chased. Your friends from the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect. I believe they're still lost, following a false trail I left for them. They'll be happier that way. I doubt they have any inkling what to do with me should they actually catch me.

The pursuers are chasing the author of the epigraphs. When we met them back in the interludes, we learned they were chasing Hoid. So, the author of the epigraphs is Hoid.
You're assuming that they were the pursuers he was talking about.

I'd say that it isn't certain.  I would say that it is extraordinarily likely, especially given that author of the epigraphs claims that he has successfully laid down a false trail, which is exactly what we see happening with the searchers.  They are looking for Hoid in one place while Hoid is halfway across the continent doing his own thing.  Again, it's not certain that Hoid is the author of the epigraphs.  It's just extremely likely and fits the situation as shown absolutely perfectly.  So your skepticism is logically sound, unlikely to convince anybody else, and not terribly useful.

As for the identity of the searchers---it's hard to come to conclusions with so little to go on.  It does make sense that they are from other worlds, though, so we can't absolutely rule out that one of them really is a Dula.  The language does seem to fit, especially the word kayana, especially in context.  So I'm half convinced that one of the searcher (the grumpy one) is a Dula.  I wouldn't dare put a name to them, though.  The arguments against them being Elantrians seems pretty strong.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2010, 05:18:32 PM »
The main reason that I'm convinced the Dula is Galladon is because most Dula are described as being unfailingly optimistic. Now, I'm sure there are more exceptions than just Galladon, but it still makes it more likely to be him.

And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the part 2 epigraphs are written by Hoid. But again, I think there's not enough specific evidence there to really get behind the idea.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.