Author Topic: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*  (Read 28746 times)

Munin

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First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« on: September 01, 2010, 10:38:45 PM »
I looked around a bit, but couldn't find anyone else who had noticed this. Either means I'm seeing things that aren't there, or that I'm more observant than everyone else. Either one is possible.

In the first interlude (with Ishikk, the fisherman), I noticed that the strangers looking for Hoid seem a lot like the characters from Elantris. Grumpy is "thick limbed" and "completely bald", Blunt is "taller", and from the description is built like a soldier. These two are dark-skinned. To me, Grumpy sounds a LOT like Galladon. Most tellingly, his last words in the interlude are Alavanta kamaloo kayana. And "kayana" is a word that Galladon uses in Elantris (if I remember correctly, it meant "crazy"). Blunt might be the soldier Elantrian (his name escapes me at the moment, and I don't have my copy of the book on hand to look it up).

And I would assume "Thinker" is Raoden, since the name and description appear to fit him.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 10:40:58 PM by Munin »
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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2010, 10:52:27 PM »
And I would assume "Thinker" is Raoden, since the name and description appear to fit him.

I dunno, for this to be true, Raoden would be very very pale (i.e. completely white) which I think would have been something of note that would have been mentioned. IIRC, Ishikk DID mention they were all pale, but just sort of off handedly, making it sound like they were "pale from not much sun exposure" not "albino pale"

Also, given brandon's history, i would think that hoid and the shards would be the only factors tying them to the other stories. however, i certainly can't say for sure that he didn't decide to start adding in characters from other books.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 11:03:39 PM »
And I would assume "Thinker" is Raoden, since the name and description appear to fit him.

I dunno, for this to be true, Raoden would be very very pale (i.e. completely white) which I think would have been something of note that would have been mentioned. IIRC, Ishikk DID mention they were all pale, but just sort of off handedly, making it sound like they were "pale from not much sun exposure" not "albino pale"
Well, it's possible that being insanely far from Elantris would mean he wouldn't be albino anymore. Bear in mind that in the book, the Aons were weakened when he got further from Elantris, so it wouldn't surprise me if the other aspects of being an Elantrian were similarly dampened.

I will admit I'm a lot less sure on Raoden and Dashe (I think that was his name). But it seems a lot more likely that Grumpy is Galladon, given his resemblance to the character and, most tellingly, his use of the Dula language.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 11:46:00 PM by Munin »
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Zmann966

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 12:32:41 AM »
Wow, at first I passed this off as rampant theorizing but going back to read the chapter....

Quote
"No, no stories, friend," Grump said. "We want only the truth."
"We'll I've given it to you."
"You swear it by Nu Ralik, that god of yours?"
"Hush!" Ishikk said. "Don't say his name. Are you idiots?"
Grump frowned. "But he is your god. Understand? Is his name holy? Not to be spoken?"

Now, let me write that passage again, with the common words translated to Dula.

Quote
"No, no stories, sule," Grump said. "We want only the truth."
"We'll I've given it to you."
"You swear it by Nu Ralik, that god of yours?"
"Hush!" Ishikk said. "Don't say his name. Are you idiots?"
Grump frowned. "But he is your god. Kolo? Is his name holy? Not to be spoken?"

When taken in translation, that DOES sound a lot like Galladon doesn't it?


Not to mention that their names are given ad Vao and Temoo... Not to creative if it's Raoden considering his last disguise name was "Kaloo"
Interesting theory to say the least...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 12:46:29 AM by Zmann966 »
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2010, 12:50:14 AM »
Yeah, I noticed the way he talks, too. It really seems to fit him.

Also, it's worth noting that as an Elantrian, Galladon is immortal, so this doesn't necessarily mean that WoK takes place around the same time as Elantris.

EDIT: Oh, and the word "kamaloo" that Grumpy says is very similar to "kaloo", which is a (very weak) connection to the Dula language.

Two things I'm unsure of: was Dashe dark-skinned, like Blunt? And did Raoden end up with a scar along his scalp? The first wouldn't mean much, but the second would support the Elantrian theory.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 12:53:33 AM by Munin »
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Zmann966

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2010, 12:58:34 AM »
I don't know if he did, I haven't read Elantris since last year.
And I don't know if Galladon and Dashe (Saolin died in Elantris right? Cuz I know he was the original soldier in Raoden's crew) were dark skinned. I THINK Dula's were dark-skinned people but I can't be sure.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2010, 01:04:50 AM »
I know Galladon was dark-skinned. I remember some kind of reference to him looking really distinctive when compared to other Elantrians, since most of them were light-skinned.

I actually was thinking of Saolin, not Dashe. I forgot that he was put into the pool. Did Dashe even appear anywhere outside of the Elantris short story? It's still possible it's him, but it's considerably less likely if he's that minor of a character, in my opinion. I just can't think of any other prominent male characters that fit the description... unless it's Uncle Kin (and I have no idea if he was dark-skinned).
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Zmann966

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 01:38:40 AM »
Kiin DEFINITELY wanst darkskinned... he was Teoish and wouldnt match Blunt's description anyway.
I have no idea who it would be though....
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 01:40:26 AM »
Might even be Galladon's son or something, depending on how long it's been since the events of Elantris.

Although that's really just a wild guess on my part.
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Wolfstar

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 01:55:19 AM »
They did seem familiar to me, but I hadn't placed them as possible Elantrians.  Interesting... I don't think I'd buy the theory, but there is some evidence that could suggest it.

Clearly though, if they're looking for Hoid and know of his other names... something crazy is going on.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2010, 03:33:01 AM »
Frankly, I don't see any way it's not Galladon.

Grumpy looking like Galladon could be a coincidence. Him being grumpy could be a coincidence.

Him speaking Dula is a clear reference.


It's the other two I'm unsure of.
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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2010, 03:38:24 AM »
I'm of the opinion that you're reading too much into this.  Brandon has a bunch of characters, some whose mannerisms overlap is bound to happen eventually.

But, just to throw fuel on the discussion, they could be on a mission for some Shard or another and using their power to fuel their magics and disguise themselves.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2010, 03:40:54 AM »
I'm of the opinion that you're reading too much into this.  Brandon has a bunch of characters, some whose mannerisms overlap is bound to happen eventually.
An overlap in mannerisms is one thing.

An overlap in mannerisms accompanied by an overlap in a specific fictional language along with looking the same and having the same personality... I see three possibilities.

1. Brandon wasn't thinking. This one is really, really unlikely. There's no way that'd slip by editors.
2. Brandon is trying to mislead us. Possible, I suppose, but I don't he'd do it in this way.
3. It's Galladon.
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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2010, 03:56:02 AM »
There was no language overlap, Grump never once said kolo or sule.  He simply used a similar sentence structure to Galladon, with the use of understand and friend in the same way Galldon would use kolo or sule, respectively.  I believe you're mixing up your notes here.
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Munin

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Re: First Interlude *Way of Kings SPOILERS*
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2010, 04:01:02 AM »
There was no language overlap, Grump never once said kolo or sule.  He simply used a similar sentence structure to Galladon, with the use of understand and friend in the same way Galldon would use kolo or sule, respectively.  I believe you're mixing up your notes here.
He said "kayana" at the end of the interlude. Re-read my first post.

Basically any time Raoden came up with any plan in Elantris, Galladon would sigh and say "You're kayana, sule."

I'm definitely not mixing up my references here. In fact, if it hadn't been for that line in WoK, I probably wouldn't have even thought of the Elantris.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 04:04:21 AM by Munin »
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.