Author Topic: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen  (Read 9629 times)

Pechvarry

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2010, 07:03:12 AM »
Pg 15

The monstrosity was vaguely skeletal in shape, with unnaturally long limbs that sprouted from granite shoulders. The eyes were deep red spots on the arrowhead face, as if created by a fire burning deep within the stone.



Pg 850

Massive creatures, easily five or six times the seize of a person, their skin dull and grey like granite. They had long limbs and skeletal bodies, the forelegs-or were they arms?-set into wide shoulders. The faces were lean, narrow. Arrowlike.

I guess 5-6 man-sizes didn't seem like enough to warrant a 6-foot-long hand (also stated on page 15).  But I suppose that's over 30' tall.

Salkara

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2010, 04:19:20 PM »
Pg 15

The monstrosity was vaguely skeletal in shape, with unnaturally long limbs that sprouted from granite shoulders. The eyes were deep red spots on the arrowhead face, as if created by a fire burning deep within the stone.



Pg 850

Massive creatures, easily five or six times the seize of a person, their skin dull and grey like granite. They had long limbs and skeletal bodies, the forelegs-or were they arms?-set into wide shoulders. The faces were lean, narrow. Arrowlike.

I guess 5-6 man-sizes didn't seem like enough to warrant a 6-foot-long hand (also stated on page 15). But I suppose that's over 30' tall.

You're assuming that the creatures have the same physical proportions as the human body. If they're proportioned as having hands twice as long as an equivalent-sized human but are also five or six times the size of a person, there's no problem.

SmokinEmber

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2010, 05:01:14 PM »
I am curious as to how they reproduce. They must somehow, since they populate half the planet. But there's been no mention of parshbabies, as far as I can remember. Even if there isn't some strange voidbringer cylce it's possible that the dead parshmen are resuurected somehow, right? Maybe stormlight revives them, which is why they're just left in the wild.
I don't think so. When Bridge 4 is down searching the chasms, they find all kinds of Parshendi bodies, and at one point I believe Kaladin makes a comment about how the Parshendi bodies were heavy enough that a highstorm wouldn't move them (since that would be the best way for the bodies to be infused with Stormlight), so he would have noticed the distinct lack of bodies after a highstorm.

Also, remember at one point, Dalinar comments that he thinks he found a female Parshendi (he also put forth that maybe the pairs of fighters were husband and wife). That's a possible explanation of the reproduction.

Random thought. You know how Parshmen/Parshendi are very particular about not disturbing the bodies of their fallen comrades? How Parshendi will go to great lengths in battle in order to avoid doing so? And then there was Shen's reaction to Kaladin when he moved a Parshendi corpse, and Sigzil explaining that all Parshmen were like that - a seemingly emotionless bunch, except that they become irate when someone tampers with their dead.

Hubay mentioned resurrection, that perhaps Parshendi are revived by Stormlight. This was something I suspected as well, when I was reading through the book. But maybe there are certain conditions that must be met - such as, a Parshmen/Parshendi must not be disturbed except by their own kin, else the revival is nullified. Perhaps their bodies must be handled in a very specific way. And maybe it's not a resurrection that occurs, but an evolving of sorts - Parshmen become Parshendi which grow into to something else, maybe Chasmfiends.

This is all just idle speculation, of course. But it's interesting to ponder...
"Not all who wander are lost" - J.R.R. Tolkien

guy

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2010, 05:57:15 PM »
i dont think so because when they first discovered the parshendi and shoed them the parshmen, the parshendi seemed to have never seen anything like them, so i doubt there is a metamorphisis from parshmen to parshendi,  more likely is that when they invade at the desolation odium gives the parshendi a sort of lobotomy making them almost useless unless something is giveing them direct orders, and the humans took advantage of that

jcats

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2010, 05:59:31 PM »
i have a theory, but I'm not sure how well it works.

basically, what if the Parshmen have more than one race? for example, what if the Regular Parshmen, are the Farmers/Workers? and the Parshendi are the Guards/Fighters? like a Swarm of bees, they have Different Castes/Sub-species of parshmen for Different Tasks? perhaps this is why we haven't seen any surgebinders, they haven't needed them in their War Against the Alethi. mostly i get this idea from the Quote on page499. "They changed, even as we fought them. Like shadows they were, that can transform as the flame dances...." to me, this implied a changeable enemy, that would adapt to what ever foe it faced. since it seems the parshmen have a type of hivemind, but still retain individual choice, perhaps this how the Warriors avoided all contact with humans... or perhaps they were Guarding something, in the Center of the Shattered Plains, perhaps a city? this could have been why they killed Galiver, because they feared that he was close to sending an Expedition to this Forbidden place, and being warriors, killing is the first option? just a thought...

another thought i had, I'm not sure if its disproven, was it mentioned anywhere that the Parshmen ever grew Old? or Died of OldAge? if not, what if they don't die, and this is why we never hear mention of parshmen children, cause they aren't needed? of course theres the "youth" Daliver didn't kill.... hurrrm...

Erunion

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2010, 06:09:14 PM »
Yes, Parshmen becoming Parshendi doesn't make much sense, as the Parshendi are confused, even dumbfounded by Parshmen. (Don't have the exact page, but the original Parshendi, upon meeting Parshmen commented "Where is their song?" and were generally very confused.)
However, the Chasmfiends becoming Thunderclasts idea does work. Likely the Chasmfiends go into chrysalis once they are ready to convert into Thunderclasts. They would then grow into the ground, until ready to be summoned out of the ground by Odium. (Note the Pre-prologue where Kalak mentions odd-shaped depressions where "Thunderclasts tore themselves out of the ground") This would also explain why the Parshendi cut open every pupating chasmfiend they can find, and tear out the gemhearts. The Parshendi don't want the chasmfiends to become Thunderclasts! Going by this theory, another explanation for the Parshendi's sudden appearance can be found. The Chasmfiends were moved to the Shattering plains in order to pupate. The Parshendi followed in order to keep them from becoming thunderclasts.

I do like the lobotomized Parshmen theory, that Parshendi are overcome by Odium, or perhaps voidbinders, are separated from "their song" and are forced to obey orders. When the humans found out about this, they took advantage.

SnagglezMaw

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2010, 08:15:39 PM »
i have a theory, but I'm not sure how well it works.

basically, what if the Parshmen have more than one race? for example, what if the Regular Parshmen, are the Farmers/Workers? and the Parshendi are the Guards/Fighters? like a Swarm of bees, they have Different Castes/Sub-species of parshmen for Different Tasks? perhaps this is why we haven't seen any surgebinders, they haven't needed them in their War Against the Alethi. mostly i get this idea from the Quote on page499. "They changed, even as we fought them. Like shadows they were, that can transform as the flame dances...." to me, this implied a changeable enemy, that would adapt to what ever foe it faced. since it seems the parshmen have a type of hivemind, but still retain individual choice, perhaps this how the Warriors avoided all contact with humans... or perhaps they were Guarding something, in the Center of the Shattered Plains, perhaps a city? this could have been why they killed Galiver, because they feared that he was close to sending an Expedition to this Forbidden place, and being warriors, killing is the first option? just a thought...
We know they do adapt battlefield tactics depending on the situation. When Kaladin jumped the chasm and drew Stormlight from all the beard gems, he notes that after that he rarely saw a Parshendi with gems in its beard and he assumed it was because they changed their tactics once they saw what he was doing.

yakumo fujii

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2010, 09:48:43 AM »
It might just be that Odium is more detached than we think.

We know that Ati (Ruin) was changed from a caring and compassionate person into an incredibly destructive force. Even if Odium is Rayse, it's possible that his personality changed, too.

Where did we learn this? ???

Cheese Ninja

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2010, 10:19:17 AM »
It might just be that Odium is more detached than we think.

We know that Ati (Ruin) was changed from a caring and compassionate person into an incredibly destructive force. Even if Odium is Rayse, it's possible that his personality changed, too.

Where did we learn this? ???

The letter (which we assume to be from Hoid) that makes up part 2's epigraphs.
http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.msg171789#msg171789
separated out here

I'm not completely opposed to the chasmfiends  becoming thunderclasts theory after pupating, but I really think at least one should have slipped by the Parshendi and Altehi by now, and we should have been able to see the result.  Where do all these chasmfiends come from anyway?  Seems like the chrysalis could just be a way for them to divide up into multiple new baby ones too.  All Dalinar had to say on the topic was:
Quote
Most gemhearts were harvested quite differently than the one had been today. Sometime during the strange life cycle of the chasmfiends, they sought the western side of the Plains, where the plateaus were wider. They climbed up onto the tops and made a rocky chrysalis, waiting for the coming of a highstorm.
Erunion's theory of them sinking into the ground to await the Desolation works fairly well, but we still don't know how the chasmfiends are born or where they come from.  I also like guy's theory on Parshmen being lobotomized by Odium.
Maybe the thunderclasts act as a signal tower for Odium's own song to be transmitted to Parshmen and make them killers?  We have read in some of the epigraphs that the voidbringers sing/chant as well.

Still don't understand why they killed Gavilar, but I don't think Parshendi are the villians here.

jacobfake

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2010, 05:18:46 AM »
First a few questions/ problems:

how is it that the battles just happen to take place where the Chasmfiends planted themselves? Especially considering that the Desolations were usually attacking the humans, and the Chasmfiends could hardly get that close without the humans noticing and killing them. It is possible that the last desolation was an attack initiated by the humans, and usually the Chasmfiends walk to the fighting, but otherwise this doesn't seem to quite add up. Also, is it really that much of an upgrade? All that time vulnerable, when you could be killed, in exchange for stone skin and faster movement doesn't seem too amazing since the Chasmfiends are pretty BA already. Also, what about all the other Greatshells? Do they all become Thunderclasts, do only Chasmfiends pupate? The theory starts to look a little iffy to me, except for "what else could the Chasmfiends be changing into?" However, if the Thunderclasts were going to battle, shouldn't their little bros be marching with them? Like, anyone who's already turned into a thunderclast behind goes sure, but the Chasmfiends are pretty dangerous themselves. Leaving them behind seems like a waste, especially when they have like thousands of years to replenish in between desolations. Therefore, there is no reason we must have already seen the result of a chasmfiend pupation, as we did not see any chasmfiends in the prelude either.

Then a couple crazy theories:

Sorry, no answer for that, but I do have a couple theories on the Thunderclasts: perhaps the Parshmen/Parshendi dead bodies are actually what drops the seed for the Thunderclasts. This would be interesting as each desolation would leave dead bodies that would drop thunderclast stuff (idk what it would be, but I'm sure Brandon could come up with something) that would mature into a thunderclast over like a thousand years. Then when they come back for the next desolation, all the thunderclasts that were planted rise up which helps explain why the parshmen are so anal about their dead bodies (more time in the same place = more chance of becoming thunderclasts, and the reaction to Kaladin was just an offshoot of dead body protection) and would support why the Desolations always caught the humans by surprise, because the thunderclasts were rising out from the very ground beneath them.

Or, what if the thunderclasts fly into the battle? OK, not like they can fly, but Odium or surgebinding or something launches them to wherever the battle is. Then they hit the ground so hard they're buried into it and thus have to rip themselves free of it. This would also explain Thunder = come from the sky + loud noise when they hit the ground. Do you think the crater/ blast radius would ruin this theory?

And then the theory that I mean as an actually solid theory:

What if Parshmen/Parshendi are the equivalent of Humans, and Voidbringers are the equivalent of Knights Radiant.
Just as windrunners are an order of knights radiant, dustbringers are an order of Voidbringers.

SnagglezMaw

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2010, 11:23:54 AM »
First a few questions/ problems:

how is it that the battles just happen to take place where the Chasmfiends planted themselves?

Chasmfiends begin to pupate and the scouts from both sides (Alethi and Parshendi) see it, then it's a mad-dash to see who can get there first and get the Gemheart. If the other arrive first there's (usually) a battle.

Cheese Ninja

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2010, 08:47:34 PM »
First a few questions/ problems:

how is it that the battles just happen to take place where the Chasmfiends planted themselves?

Chasmfiends begin to pupate and the scouts from both sides (Alethi and Parshendi) see it, then it's a mad-dash to see who can get there first and get the Gemheart. If the other arrive first there's (usually) a battle.

You're misinterpreting him.  He's saying that if thunderclasts are chasmfiends that have planted themselves into the ground and become indistinguishable from it, how is it that in the aftermath of the battle in the prelude with thunderclasts, there was evidence of them rising up from the battlefield itself.  That would imply that at some point before the battle, it was a chasmfiend pupating ground. 

As far as the thunderclasts in Dalinar's flashbacks, he didn't note of any signs of them being risen from the battlefield, but he didn't seem to spend that long looking at the destruction either.

hubay

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2010, 11:57:18 PM »

Or, what if the thunderclasts fly into the battle? OK, not like they can fly, but Odium or surgebinding or something launches them to wherever the battle is. Then they hit the ground so hard they're buried into it and thus have to rip themselves free of it. This would also explain Thunder = come from the sky + loud noise when they hit the ground. Do you think the crater/ blast radius would ruin this theory?


I'm not sure what I think about most of that, but if you're trying to come up with a logic behind the name I think you're going in the wrong direction. 'clast' as a suffix generally means "to break" or "destroy." So either this mans thunderclasts create thunder you can refer to thunder as breaking or it means they fight it. Obviously not literally but it would be a poetic way of writing them as demons if stormlight is holy than one who fights the storm is evil.

elsyan

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2010, 02:43:24 PM »
Semi-bump as this is a good thread.

How does all of this fit in to the cause of the war itself?  I like the idea that the parshmen and chasmfiends are related (there's just way too much similarity in the way their bodies / shells are described) AND that they relate to the "orders" of voidbringers including thunderclasts somehow (after all, just look at the back cover and the ars arcanum which infer that there is a lot more to the voidbringers that meets the eye). 

There are many hints in the flashbacks of when G and D first meet the parshendi BUT I haven't been able to tease out a theory that makes sense...

Galavantes

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2010, 05:50:46 PM »
This all sort of reminds me of my theory as to why they assassinated Gavilar in the first place. It seemed apparent to me (of course I could be wrong) that the Parshendi needed a massive army to camp itself in the shattered plains. -Why- they need that is unknown, maybe its just to kill chasm fiends before they become something worse, or maybe its so there will be an army there to fight off an attack of unknown origin (unknown to anyone not Parshendi).
And since it's exceptionally unlikely that the Alethi would believe the Parshendi when they start describing this horrific threat, the Parshendi knew they would have to do something drastic to get them out there. Like killing their king and then luring them right to where they will eventually need them.
Just my thoughts