Author Topic: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen  (Read 5224 times)

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2010, 04:59:03 AM »
I would say they were Hatespren (to fit with Odium), but they don't seem at all hateful (except towards Kaladin when he's wearing the Parshendi armor).
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Salkara

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2010, 05:55:54 AM »
my idea was that the whole custom of fighting over gemhearts and harvesting them and the importance attributed to it was a kind of oral tradition passed down over generations so that even if written histories failed or were destroyed or were lost in translation, humans would continue to harvest the gemhearts and interrupt the Voidbringer lifecycle, keeping thunderclasts from gestating.

As far as I understood, the gemhearts were important for Soulcasting purposes. Also, this idea loses some traction considering that humanity has only known about the chasmfiends for 7 years. Remember, it was when the Alethi discovered the Parshendi that they also discovered the chasmfiends.

Gwynasyn

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2010, 06:04:10 AM »
My problem with the theory that the Parshendi/Parshmen are some kind of spren is the question... how and/or why did humanity enslave them?

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2010, 03:42:33 PM »
My problem with the theory that the Parshendi/Parshmen are some kind of spren is the question... how and/or why did humanity enslave them?
Same way you enslave anything else. And for the same reason.

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing about Spren that makes them difficult to control. The lack of true intelligence might even make it easier, in some cases.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Salkara

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2010, 09:53:20 PM »
My problem with the Pashmen=spren theory is that they seem a bit too substantial. From my understanding of the spren, they were more like visual representations of things such as concepts and emotions.

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2010, 10:05:28 PM »
My problem with the Pashmen=spren theory is that they seem a bit too substantial. From my understanding of the spren, they were more like visual representations of things such as concepts and emotions.
Maybe.

As I said, it's just a wild theory, and we don't know enough about the Spren or the Parshmen yet to say much one way or another.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2010, 01:25:47 AM »
I find the theory that the Parshmen/Parshendi are just other stages of Chasmfiends/Thunderclasts much more likely than the spren theory. Like Salkara said, they're just to substantial. Every spren we've seen so far, I've visualized as either a spirit type thing, or a very small plant, maybe like a mushroom. Which is kind of weird now that I think about it. But anyway, Syl is the only exception to this, and even she can't pick up more than a leaf. It would be rather difficult for the Parshendi to fight if they were Spren.

Also, if the Parshendi are bonded with Spren, why do we see no Surge/Void binding? You'd think that if they had the capability, they'd use it.

However, I also have my problems with the theory that Parshmen and/or Parshendi eventually become chasmfiends or thunderclasts. A lot of them. Like the fact that there are tons of parshmen and parshendi, and very few chasmfiends, and no thunderclasts. I even have a few reservations with chasmfiends becoming thunderclasts, though I think it is likely that they eventually do so. (My primary issue here is that when Dalinar sees thunderclasts in his visions, he doesn't associate them with chasmfiends, at all, though he apparently does associate the drawing of a thunderclast that Jasnah sends via the spanreeds with chasmfiends).

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With the parshmen, it just seems unlikely that they could be spren, and unlikely that they evolve in some way, or we'd see the evolution. Now the theory that they can be 'activated' somehow I can buy, though that opens a whole new can of worms.....
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hubay

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2010, 04:19:35 AM »
I always thought of spren as bubbles; It added to the pseudo-oceanic theme. Parshmen as early chasmfiends is an interesting idea, but half the war is about the parshendi hunting and killing chasmfiends, so unless that's part of the process I doubt that's what they are.

I am curious as to how they reproduce. They must somehow, since they populate half the planet. But there's been no mention of parshbabies, as far as I can remember. Even if there isn't some strange voidbringer cylce it's possible that the dead parshmen are resuurected somehow, right? Maybe stormlight revives them, which is why they're just left in the wild.

jacobfake

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2010, 05:16:26 AM »
There does seem to be a notable absence of any sort of "warspren," and this would be explained if every single Parshendi had bonded with a warspren, since lots of parshendi bonded with lots of warspren = strange absence of warspren. This would also explain the Parshendi's at first inexplicable assassination of King Gavilar, because it provoked a war, and it could also explain why they seem content to hang out on the plains fighting the Alethi without ever really trying to end the fighting or escape. It would also explain their weird sense of honor on the battlefield, since there usually is supposed to be "honor in war" or something like that, at least in medieval/fantasy settings there usually is. The way they grow armor stuff could be the type of surgebinding that is granted by bonding with a war spren. I would be interested to know if they already had the armor when Gavilar originally discovered them.
       (What if there are still more surgebinding powers even beyond what the knights radiant used? Like, the knights radiant were bonded with a specific ten types of spren but a Nahel bond with any type of spren would produce at least some type of surgebinding.)

Since the Chasmfiends go into chrysalis, they have to become something, and Thunderclasts definitely seem the most likely candidates. However, one thing is: what about all the other Great Shells? Do they all become Thunderclasts? No way, although maybe there are more voidbringers we haven't been introduced to yet.
And, the Parshendi become chasmfiends become thunderclasts theory isn't directly contradicted by the low number of chasmfiends, as it could be like a "seed is planted, only grows into chasfiends sometimes" sort of things, and nor is it contradicted by them cutting open the chasmfiends because they could never hold the plateau long enough for the chasmfiend to completely change, and the parshendi would cut it open regardless, so they might as well cut it open to feed their army.
     ---perhaps the parshmen only become parshendi when they bond with warspren, although I have no idea how that would happen since the parshmen are so docile

That line about "his punishment demanded they didn't, his honor demanded they did," though, is very interesting. I hadn't even noticed it so thanks to whoever brought it up.

Pechvarry

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2010, 06:18:27 AM »
Re-reading the Prelude, I'm really not certain the Thunderclasts were ever considered Voidbringers.  They're described as just joining the fray.  Sounds kinda like a 3rd party consisting of massive, hungry, and aggressive beasts in the middle of a warzone.

jacobfake

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2010, 06:27:45 AM »
what about Dalinar's vision though? (with their bodies lying throughout kholinar)

Pechvarry

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2010, 07:22:42 AM »
I thought those were smaller creatures than thunderclasts (which I'm under the impression are just chasmfiends -- or at least what a sabertooth tiger is to a modern tiger).  Also, in the vision with the smokebag monsters (featuring awesome firepoker/table leg dual wielding), doesn't one of the Radiants outright say said monsters aren't voidbringers?  If it's evil and heralds another Desolation but isn't a voidbringer, voidbringers must be something exceedingly specific.  Thus, Parshendi as the only true voidbringers (whatever that even means!) makes the most sense to me.

Kykeon

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2010, 07:53:14 AM »
I thought those were smaller creatures than thunderclasts (which I'm under the impression are just chasmfiends -- or at least what a sabertooth tiger is to a modern tiger).  Also, in the vision with the smokebag monsters (featuring awesome firepoker/table leg dual wielding), doesn't one of the Radiants outright say said monsters aren't voidbringers?  If it's evil and heralds another Desolation but isn't a voidbringer, voidbringers must be something exceedingly specific.  Thus, Parshendi as the only true voidbringers (whatever that even means!) makes the most sense to me.
Yes.
It's called Night's essence or something like that, and seems to be a common foot-soldier type of monster.
 

jacobfake

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2010, 11:38:20 PM »
Pg 15

    The monstrosity was vaguely skeletal in shape, with unnaturally long limbs that sprouted from granite shoulders. The eyes were deep red spots on the arrowhead face, as if created by a fire burning deep within the stone.



Pg 850

    Massive creatures, easily five or six times the seize of a person, their skin dull and grey like granite. They had long limbs and skeletal bodies, the forelegs-or were they arms?-set into wide shoulders. The faces were lean, narrow. Arrowlike.


so, Brandon seems to be going to a lot of trouble to let us know the two creatures are the same. Also, notice the ones in the vision are the ones described as massive. The point about that implying that voidbringers are something specific seems pretty good. It could also be, though, that voidbringers was specific to thunderclasts, or specific to parshendi, and the other was considered like "those weaker guys who fight with the voidbringers," or maybe one group was specifically leading the desolations with the other the foot-soldiers, though idk if nights essence are foot soldiers, since the clarification could've been because nights essence didn't actually do any of the fighting in the army v army desolations, they just rampaged random defenseless towns.

SnagglezMaw

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2010, 12:52:22 AM »
I am curious as to how they reproduce. They must somehow, since they populate half the planet. But there's been no mention of parshbabies, as far as I can remember. Even if there isn't some strange voidbringer cylce it's possible that the dead parshmen are resuurected somehow, right? Maybe stormlight revives them, which is why they're just left in the wild.
I don't think so. When Bridge 4 is down searching the chasms, they find all kinds of Parshendi bodies, and at one point I believe Kaladin makes a comment about how the Parshendi bodies were heavy enough that a highstorm wouldn't move them (since that would be the best way for the bodies to be infused with Stormlight), so he would have noticed the distinct lack of bodies after a highstorm.

Also, remember at one point, Dalinar comments that he thinks he found a female Parshendi (he also put forth that maybe the pairs of fighters were husband and wife). That's a possible explanation of the reproduction.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 12:54:50 AM by SnagglezMaw »