Author Topic: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen  (Read 9367 times)

Nightfire107

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 09:21:15 PM »
Personally, I think the black sphere is more likely than shardblades. It seems to have significance, from the way Gavilar treats it.

The only part that doesn't fit is that the Parshendi didn't tell Szeth to recover it. And Gavilar probably wouldn't have given it to an assassin working for the Parshendi, unless he didn't know that they were after it, and he was trying to keep it from someone else.

Gavilar did not suspect the parshendi of sending the assasin. I think he wanted to keep the black sphere from someone else.
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jjb

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 09:45:07 PM »
The three-diamond society, maybe? (I forget what Jasnah called them.)

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 09:48:01 PM »
Personally, I think the black sphere is more likely than shardblades. It seems to have significance, from the way Gavilar treats it.

The only part that doesn't fit is that the Parshendi didn't tell Szeth to recover it. And Gavilar probably wouldn't have given it to an assassin working for the Parshendi, unless he didn't know that they were after it, and he was trying to keep it from someone else.

Gavilar did not suspect the parshendi of sending the assasin. I think he wanted to keep the black sphere from someone else.
True, but just because he wasn't trying to keep the sphere from the Parshendi doesn't mean they weren't looking for it.
The three-diamond society, maybe? (I forget what Jasnah called them.)
Hm.

Now that's a definite possibility.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 01:43:05 AM by Munin »
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Nightfire107

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2010, 01:04:52 AM »

Gavilar did not suspect the parshendi of sending the assasin. I think he wanted to keep the black sphere from someone else.
Quote
True, but just because he wasn't trying to keep the sphere from the Parshendi doesn't mean they weren't looking for it.


i suppose. But that means he wanted them no one to get it. Also what did the assasin send with it?
"We're Bridge Four, we've been around. We've liven in the crem and been used as bait. If it helps you survive, it's good. That's all that needs to be said about it."

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2010, 01:43:39 AM »
i suppose. But that means he wanted them no one to get it. Also what did the assasin send with it?
Huh?
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Nightfire107

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 06:46:38 AM »
my bad the quote system hates me appearently. I was saying that the parshendi we're likly not looking for the sphere. Gavilar was suspicious of other factions not the parshendi. They also did not send szeth for it.
"We're Bridge Four, we've been around. We've liven in the crem and been used as bait. If it helps you survive, it's good. That's all that needs to be said about it."

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 02:36:50 PM »
my bad the quote system hates me appearently. I was saying that the parshendi we're likly not looking for the sphere. Gavilar was suspicious of other factions not the parshendi.
Just because Gavilar didn't know they were looking for it doesn't mean they weren't. Keep in mind that nobody knows anything about the Parshendi.
They also did not send szeth for it.
True. But keep in mind that:
My thinking is that if the Parshendi are looking for the black sphere (nice theory about the dark stormlight, BTW) that not having Szeth grab it fits into their "honor" system.
It's still a possibility, although I agree it's less likely.

It might also be that they didn't know Gavilar had it, but would be interested in it if they knew.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Aranfan

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 11:23:03 PM »
I'd like to point out that even if the Parshendi/Parshmen are Voidbringers, and even if they are of Odium, that doesn't mean they like it.  Ruin's creatures certainly tried to avoid serving their master.

rjl

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2010, 12:13:51 AM »
Shardblades were supposably given to the radiants to fight the voidbringers, so the voidbringers having them seems strange.

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2010, 12:33:55 AM »
Shardblades were supposably given to the radiants to fight the voidbringers, so the voidbringers having them seems strange.
Not really. You're assuming the voidbringers never managed to kill a single radiant, which is unlikely.
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sdelu

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2010, 12:49:39 AM »
Well, wait a minute. Why can't the Parshmen be voidbringers, and the Parshendi be something else? Or maybe the parshmen can be controlled by voidbringers, or whoever it is that enslaves them?

The Parshendi act strange.  Beyond strange, really, but what if they're really GOOD "people"?

Crackpot Theory Alert.

Consider:

- The Parshendi are not hostile when first they meet humans.
- The Parshendi arrive around the same time that people start saying crazy stuff while dying
- The Parshendi then have Gavilar assassinated, take the blame for it, and run.
- The Parshendi draw the ten highprinces of Alethkar out in a (supposedly) unified war against them
- The Parshendi fight with "honor"
- The Parshendi Shardbearer recognizes Dalinar, and doesn't kill him.
- The Parshendi leave Kaladin be when he exhibits Surgebinding powers.

It seems as if the Parshendi have a "hive mind" like others have mentioned. Wouldn't this, then, imply that all their memories could be "preserved" over the years?  This would explain why they recognize Kaladin for what he is, or what his magic represents... a Radiant.

Why would the Voidbringers NOT attack a Radiant?

No, no, something is wrong with that.

The Parshendi killed Gavilar to draw the highprinces out to war.  They recognize Dalinar, the man who is charged with uniting Alethkar.  They recognize -- and almost revere -- Kaladin's abilities.  They have weapons far more sophisticated than they should - remnants from the older wars?  They arrive when people start predicting the Desolation.  Just because two events occur at the same time does not mean one caused the other.... Perhaps when the "death talks" happened it occurred within their own people as well, and they recognized it for what it was and set out?

It seems as if they're trying to push Alethkar into becoming what it once was: a nation of united fighters who will stand together against the voidbringers. (Which begs the question, is this really a GOOD thing?  Taravangian seems to think not. Hmm....)

My thought?  They fought on the side of the Radiants, and they remember it, and they're certainly NOT what they seem.

Of course, none of that makes any sense when you consider that they're killing Alethi people.  But it is the beginning of an explanation, at least.

The Parshmen, though, aren't the same as the Parshendi.  And they very well COULD be the voidbringers.

And I think there's certainly something to their "respect of the dead." There's definitely something to that... but what?

jacobfake

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2010, 04:55:38 AM »
Some slightly disorganized thoughts it would be cool if anyone could comment on:

On when they run after Kaladin's lashing, it's possible they freak out because they pass down stories or legends about the radiants.

The talking before death thing is because the Everdesolation or whatever (you know what I'm talking about, I hope) is about to come.

what happened to parshendi surge binders?
wait how would parshendi surge binders even work, without the radiant ideals, did they also bind with spren?

It seemed like Parshendi were just Parshmen after they got set off.

assassinating Gavilar didn't help the unification effort at all
-if anything, they are acting perfectly to prevent unification, because if the highprinces were at home then Dalinar could be conquering and Elhokar could be taking over, versus on the plains they stayed in the state of disarray for 6 years.

  -this was why I was thinking they could be acting from Odium's commands, intended to prevent the unification that might enable the Alethi to stand against the Everstorm. Of course, the honor thing still doesn't make sense.
     

-why didn't the parshendi have Szeth come back to them after killing Gavilar? They just gave him up?

we don't actually know what the parshendi shard bearer would have done with dalinar, having been interrupted, he might have been planning to question him, beat him up, etc. and then kill him.

where did the parshendi come from?
how does parshendi surge binding work? (prologue says they can hold storm light in without leaking)

the one thing that really doesn't seem to add up, though, is still the conflict between the Parshendi being honorable versus fighting on the side of the thunderclasts and the Almighty stepping in on the side of alethkar

-are the Thunderclasts like super strong or something? Because the parshendi definitely don't seem to be on par the total ownage described alongside the desolations

PLEASE put more theories on why they are honorable & why they respect the dead so much

Munin

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2010, 05:05:55 AM »
-this was why I was thinking they could be acting from Odium's commands, intended to prevent the unification that might enable the Alethi to stand against the Everstorm. Of course, the honor thing still doesn't make sense.
Remember what the Almighty said about Odium: "He is bound by some rules". That could mean Odium has a sense of honor.
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Fireborn

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2010, 05:07:12 AM »
Thunderclasts and Voidbringers are not the same thing.  In the Prelude, Kalak describes an enormous stone beast, that's a Thunderclast.

The Parshendi don't have Surgebinders.  They have those little bits of gems in their beards that have Stormlight in them, that may be what you're thinking of.

The only reason that the Parshendi Shardbearer didn't kill Dalinar is that Kaladin stepped in and stabbed him.

And it seems like the Parshendi were more afraid of Kaladin than anything.  They just are disciplined enough not to run from him.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

sdelu

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Re: WOK Spoilers: Parshmen
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2010, 06:33:30 AM »

On when they run after Kaladin's lashing, it's possible they freak out because they pass down stories or legends about the radiants.

I agree.  But the question is, do they act from fear, honor, reverence?  At first they try to fight him, but then they just leave him be.  Out of respect for his skills?  Maybe.  But what's with the chant then?

If they were voidbringers and evil beings, why wouldn't they try and kill him right then and there?

The talking before death thing is because the Everdesolation or whatever (you know what I'm talking about, I hope) is about to come.

Yes.  But Taravangian (and likely Jasnah) will link the coming of these occurrences with the meeting with the Parshendi.  And likely they are linked... but in what way?  Does the meeting signify that a war will come, or is the clashing of the two cultures a form of weakening the people that would stand against the voidbringers, or is it because Gavilar found that stone (perhaps he stole it from them?), or is it just coincidence?

The fact that there is overwhelming evidence for the Parshendi/Parshmen being the voidbringers, and the fact that the meeting of the two coincide with the onset of the Everstorm... it just seems fishy.  Either there's some sort of major twist coming, or the Parshendi aren't the true threat of the voidbringers.  I mean, all that evidence in book one feels way too convenient to me.

what happened to parshendi surge binders?
wait how would parshendi surge binders even work, without the radiant ideals, did they also bind with spren?

Well, we don't really know what's going on with that. And again, that's assuming that the Parshendi are the voidbringers. Assuming that's correct (as it seems to be), then that would require the spren bonding with the Parshendi. I don't see that happening.  It's more likely that the abilities can manifest themselves without the spren, and the spren are necessary to either (a) enhance the powers or (b) bond the surgebinders to a cause.

It seemed like Parshendi were just Parshmen after they got set off.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

assassinating Gavilar didn't help the unification effort at all
-if anything, they are acting perfectly to prevent unification, because if the highprinces were at home then Dalinar could be conquering and Elhokar could be taking over, versus on the plains they stayed in the state of disarray for 6 years.

Maybe.  But consider that Gavilar was the only one who believed in the Codes at the time.  He would not have lasted long as king (and he didn't, now did he?).  And Dalinar at the time thought that unity could come from conquering.  I could go on, but for now let me just say that no, I don't think there's really any chance that there would have been unity with Gavilar on the throne.  However, killing the new king and thus FORCING all the highprinces to go to war? Hm.

I'm not saying it makes much sense, I'm just trying to find a way to make the oddities of the Parshendi make some sort of sense.  They're definitely not what they seem, and it just feels too easy to label them as voidbringers.  I mean, the evidence is overwhelming, and I can't see how it's wrong at this point, but... I don't know. Sanderson is a tricky guy, and this smacks of trickery to me.

  -this was why I was thinking they could be acting from Odium's commands, intended to prevent the unification that might enable the Alethi to stand against the Everstorm. Of course, the honor thing still doesn't make sense.     

-why didn't the parshendi have Szeth come back to them after killing Gavilar? They just gave him up?

Neither of those actions make sense at all.  The honor makes no sense.  The Shardbearer raising his blade to Dalinar makes no sense.  Letting Szeth go makes no sense.  Killing Gavilar makes no sense.  Being so reverent of their dead when nothing else drives them to passion makes no sense.... What the heck, man?

we don't actually know what the parshendi shard bearer would have done with dalinar, having been interrupted, he might have been planning to question him, beat him up, etc. and then kill him.

Absolutely true.  But the way he speaks to Dalinar indicates that he was searching for him.  Why?  Just to kill him? To get some answers makes more sense.  But HOW would he know to look for Dalinar, and why?

Perhaps they know something of the message Szeth left, and needed Dalinar dead along with Gavilar.  Or perhaps it had something to do with his visions. 

the one thing that really doesn't seem to add up, though, is still the conflict between the Parshendi being honorable versus fighting on the side of the thunderclasts and the Almighty stepping in on the side of alethkar

It's all quite wonky, isn't it?  I don't buy the excuse that "Odium is bound by honor" or what-have-you.  If he just killed the Almighty, how the heck can he be bound by honor?