Author Topic: Gavilier (spoiler)  (Read 4218 times)

Omelethead

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The Member Formerly Known as Gher
    • View Profile
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2010, 10:54:59 PM »
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
Because the Parshendi had Gavilar killed and we don't know where his Plate or Blade are, hence this whole thread.
But they didn't have him killed for his Plate and Blade! They didn't give Szeth any special instructions, never told him to make sure and take the Blade or to leave the Plate as intact as possible. They weren't interested in his Blade and Plate, they had their own sets.

As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up. Dalinar didn't give it to Elhokar, but let him decide who got it, to honor him as king. Elhokar gave it out, we don't know where. The other Highprinces don't bother sending their captured Shards to the king, but give them to their own men, something Dalinar later decided to do with Renarin.

If you had read the quotes I linked earlier in this thread, you'd see that the actual passages related to those things are ambiguous as to if Dalinar gave a set of Blade and Plate to Elhokar to keep or to use.

As Erunion pointed out though, Elhokar could have already had his own set of Plate and Blade before Gavilar died, but just because Dalinar and Gavilar defeated the other Alethi shardbearers does not neccessarily mean they killed the other shardbearers.  They were fighting other Alethi after all with the goal of uniting all the Alethi.  That would be hard to do if they went around taking all the Alethi Blades and Plate.

I didn't think they were that ambiguous. Dalinar let Elhokar decide who to award the Shardplate to. He would have mentioned it if Elhokar owed Dalinar for his Shards, especially when Dalinar was drilling some sense into Elhokar's head at the end.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 10:57:23 PM by Omelethead »

Fireborn

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 307
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Geniusness Explosion!
    • View Profile
    • Rampant And Rhetoric
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2010, 10:59:06 PM »
Why would the Parshendi Shardbearer have Gavilar's Blade/Plate? The book mentions that the Parshendi had their own Shardbearers, so when we finally meet one, why do we assume it's not just a "regular" Shardbearer?
Because the Parshendi had Gavilar killed and we don't know where his Plate or Blade are, hence this whole thread.
But they didn't have him killed for his Plate and Blade! They didn't give Szeth any special instructions, never told him to make sure and take the Blade or to leave the Plate as intact as possible. They weren't interested in his Blade and Plate, they had their own sets.
It never actually says if they took it or not or if they even needed Szeth to do anything.  Whatever their motives for killing Gavilar, getting a Shardblade at the same time seems like a good deal.
Sure, the Blade/Plate probably wasn't their main goal, but we can't say it wasn't one of their goals.
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

Omelethead

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The Member Formerly Known as Gher
    • View Profile
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2010, 01:27:05 AM »
It never actually says if they took it or not or if they even needed Szeth to do anything.  Whatever their motives for killing Gavilar, getting a Shardblade at the same time seems like a good deal.
Sure, the Blade/Plate probably wasn't their main goal, but we can't say it wasn't one of their goals.

I think it pretty definitely wasn't one of their goals. How would they have managed it without specifically instructing Szeth? They're going to sneak someone else close to the king's body before any of his advisors get there to hurry and grab the Blade? No way. I'm sure they would have asked Szeth to steal the Blade if they had thought of it or fully understood what Truthless of Shinovar meant. They're probably not going to turn down a Blade if it comes their way (though they just might, since that is what they did by letting Dalinar and Adolin walk away, by fighting fair. They might not believe in stealing an assassinated man's Blade), but they wouldn't sign a treaty and send an assassin that same night just for a Blade.

They wanted to kill Gavilar. They probably didn't think Szeth would even have to battle a Shardbearer to death. It was a surprise for Gavilar to be the one in the Plate, remember. They wanted Szeth to get the king, hopefully avoiding any Shardbearers along the way, but getting past them if he needed to.

There's no way they did all this to get one Shardsuit. It was not the goal, a goal, or even something they were hoping for.

wolverinehokie

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2010, 01:45:00 AM »
There's no way they did all this to get one Shardsuit. It was not the goal, a goal, or even something they were hoping for.

I don't think anyone thinks they killed Gavilar for the Blade and Plate.  But just because they have their own sets, doesn't mean they wouldn't also like another set.  Also, as someone else said, they could have checked on Szeth's handiwork and noticed the Blade and then took the Blade.  That's not my personal theory (I like the Shallan idea), but I do think is a valid theory.

And even if the set Dalinar won on the plains was given to Elhokar to give to whoever he wanted, it still doesn't answer where Gavilar's set is now.

Omelethead

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The Member Formerly Known as Gher
    • View Profile
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2010, 04:20:52 AM »
There's no way they did all this to get one Shardsuit. It was not the goal, a goal, or even something they were hoping for.

I don't think anyone thinks they killed Gavilar for the Blade and Plate.  But just because they have their own sets, doesn't mean they wouldn't also like another set.  Also, as someone else said, they could have checked on Szeth's handiwork and noticed the Blade and then took the Blade.  That's not my personal theory (I like the Shallan idea), but I do think is a valid theory.

I'm sure they'd like another set, but they couldn't reasonably expect to get Gavilar's. Making off with his Plate would be unbelievably difficult. It would require armies to hold the Alethi off while they stripped Gavilar and carted it out. His Blade would be easier, but there's no way for them to be first to the scene, beating Gavilar's guards and countrymen.

If they wanted Plate, they could have invited Highprinces out for Greatshell hunts. And had "accidents".

I 'm sticking with what I said. The Parshendi had no expectation or hope to get ahold of Gavilar's Shards. It just wasn't in their plans. If they had thought ahead, they might have commanded Szeth to recover any Shardblades he happened across, but it's easy to see how they forgot. They were worried about bigger things at the time.

And even if the set Dalinar won on the plains was given to Elhokar to give to whoever he wanted, it still doesn't answer where Gavilar's set is now.

Very true. It's a good question. I think Elhokar inherited Gavilar's Plate, but that's just a personal theory.

Porteiro

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2010, 06:37:02 AM »
As far as I can remember, Dalinar only captured one set of Parshendi Shardplate, which he gave to Elhokar to divvy up.
At one point, I think that Dalinar mentioned that he's dueled and killed two shardbearers.  One of those times might have happened in the wars to unite the kingdom, though.

Stormblessed

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 380
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Gavilier (spoiler)
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2010, 09:28:59 AM »
I seem to remember the Parshendi leaving the party before the King was killed. Szeth standing up was a sign for the Parshendi to withdraw. If they were already gone, they would have been unlikely to have had time to get the shardblade, let alone a balky shardplate that had run out of juice (stormlight).
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier