Sept. 6- RavenstarRHJF- Of Crowns and Kings, Ch. 1.2-3

[RavenstarRHJF]

Here's the rest of chapter 1- what I call sections 2 and 3. There may be a four based on feedback here.  Otherwise we'll just move right along.

Quick synopsis of previous events:

Alexander is crown prince of a country called Arrelaine.  His father is dying, and the bordering empire of Carn is about to invade, having left them alone for over a century.

No language, violence or sex.

Enjoy and tear into it!

[Asmodemon]

Good second part of the chapter – you've stepped up on the descriptions of what the people in the scenes are doing. I also like the military issues addressed here; the strategies the Arrelaine army is going to use for instance. I'm a bit hesitant on the wisdom of their strategies, as is Alexander, of facing the superior numbers of the empire on the plains though. With several generals you'd think they'd be able to come up with a better plan, assuming they are competent.

Speaking of the generals, Iīm left to wonder how big Arrelaine is, if itīs big enough for several of them. Because you're portraying it as a small country I'm reading into this that the old king, or perhaps his predecessors, allowed a bureaucratic mess to occur. We have a council of generals, for military issues, but there's sure to be a lot more councils on other matters as well. Alexander might have a hard time keeping all factions in line. Or am I reading too much into this?
 
Regardless of the wisdom in the strategies the generals devise I'm have some trouble with it happening in the war room. Itīs one thing to plan the defense of the country in the war room of the palace in the capital before the invasion, but itīs another entirely to run the defense from the war room when it's under way.

Picture this, the front lines are doing hit and run against the enemy on plains with hills. To be able to do this they need a place to keep their distance after the engagement as well as be able to stall the enemy from approaching the inhabited lands. Moving on these plains will be hard. Now, reserve troops are a day away, the capital I presume is behind the reserve troops, letīs say another day.

For a messenger to report on the tidings of the battle takes, worst case, two days, but messengers often have means to travel longer and faster than a whole army – relays and more horses, so it'll be less. But then the message needs to be heard by the council of generals, the new king, and a plan has to be formed. Another messenger then needs to go back. By the time the new plan arrives the whole situation will have drastically changed, rendering it completely moot.

Alexander should be briefed on the efforts, yes, but if he's in the capital he shouldn't be a part of strategy, not if he's a competent king who trusts his subordinates, unless there's a means for instant communication, but I haven't seen anything of the kind so far. A king, in this case, will probably be swarmed with merchants, farmers, and others who are suffering from the war - a lot will even blame the king and not the empire. This should be the focus of the king, the war should be left to the soldiers and a general in the field.

[RavenstarRHJF]

Regarding the size of Arrelaine... I think it comes across as small because most of the time I'm comparing it to the size of the Empire that's just become their enemy- which is roughly the size of half the U.S., maybe just a bit over.  Consider, for instance, a country the size of Iowa and Missouri together, taking on the central and western states all together.  But I do need to clarify that in the text.

You raise a good point for where the strategizing is taking place- I'll have to change that, but I think I can still maintain tension.  It'll just be in different areas.

Thanks for your time and advice!

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Your setting is horribly generic.  I didn't read the first entry so maybe I missed something, but everything comes off as LotR brand bland.  They only thing that could make it worse would be to have elves and dwarves.  Thankfully, you don't have any.  YAY!

I'm assume the tension of the "why" behind the war was in the first part.  If it really wasn't, then there's that too.  You spoke of keeping tension, but I don't find much tension behind it.  I DO find quite a bit good charactering (and yes I just made that word up), in how the different generals and the new, young king, though their dialog is about as interesting as the setting.  I did find myself sympathetic toward Alexander as his daddy just bought the farm, and he's suddenly gotta run this war machine against a super sized country.

A big setting hole I did notice were the terms "Emperor," and "King" being used to describe warring people.  Maybe I missed this in the first entry, but in Saxon terms, an Emperor was the ruler of a country and kings served under him.  When England (as an example) was taken over by the Normans, the term Emperor was changed to King and many of the more familiar noble titles fell under it.  So when I read this piece all I can wander is "Why are these people rebelling?"  As you can see it all comes off as Starwars to me.  Hence the blandness.  That's not to say rebellions fighting evil emperors is necessarily bland, but there isn't enough substance and depth to the piece to separate it from good old Luke Skywalker.  Alexander even makes me think of a male Princess Leah.

Anything I could say about the war effort was already covered so I won't repeat that.

Also, you use passive voice . . . . a lot.

[RavenstarRHJF]

LTU, I've noticed you use the words 'bland' and 'generic' in your critiques a lot these days... maybe you should switch to reading Sci-fi!    

Empire and King both use modern definitions in my setting.  The Emperor rules an Empire made up of many conquered nations.  A King (or Queen- there are Queens who rule in their own right) rules his own kingdom which he inherited from his father (or mother as the case may be). 

So no, they are not rebelling- they're being invaded.  And I know right now my characters are sort of bland vanilla (partially because description is not my strong suit).  It gets better I promise, just give it time.  As for my setting being based on Lord of the Rings... I really can't see where you got that at this point.  Could you explain?  Perhaps I'm missing something.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Empire and King both use modern definitions in my setting.  The Emperor rules an Empire made up of many conquered nations.  A King (or Queen- there are Queens who rule in their own right) rules his own kingdom which he inherited from his father (or mother as the case may be).

Well that's nice, I would not know that from reading the piece.  By the time I finished the piece I understood what was going on, but for a good chunk of it I was thinking they were using Saxon titles.  You might not mean it the way I took it, but I'm only really sure of how you meant it because you told me how you meant it.

As for my setting being based on Lord of the Rings... I really can't see where you got that at this point.

Well I can understand the confusion.  After all I didn't actually that.  What I did say, however, was that the setting is  . . . boring, overused, rehashed, lacking imagination, and just like nigh every fantasy since the creation of Lord of the Rings up until very recently.  Ironically, fantasy before that fell into two holes of overused:  The barbarians of the very early BC (or BCE for those of you who prefer), and Arthurian legends.  Barbarians are out of style, but people still can't get over Arthur.  Now I like Conan, The Gray Mouser, and King Arthur but they were and are over used places.  Lord of the Rings, for all its glory and awesomeness, is essentially Europe . . . with magic.  Your setting, with what little we have of it comes off as the same kind of over used fantasy setting that Lord of the Rings created.  And by that I mean Europe with magic.

Now the tried and true setting in itself is not bad.  It's the how its used.  books like The Name of the Wind fall into the same category as your piece here as far as what the setting is.  If you removed the fantastic, it would read as a well researched historical piece of fiction about bard types in I'm guessing the sixteenth or seventeenth century.  It's historical, real world, and essentially boring.  What keeps The Name of the Wind from being generic is the depth at which this world exists.  By using a bard character, Rothfuss was able to give us stories, songs, and lots of other stuff that made his world truly enjoyable as many of us have never experienced that kind of life.  That made it interesting.  And his magic was cool.

Now let's compare that to say The Way of Kings (Best book ever).  Sanderson's latest release is set in a world where a great deal of it resembles a coral reef being blasted by tides.  Minus the ocean and the underwater part.  Not to mention the spren (which are super cool).  The world itself is alien, but there are many familiar elements that we as the readers can latch onto for support before being drowned by axehounds and high storms (like ninjas who can walk on walls, as an example of the familiar).

So to be clear on what I'm trying to beat about the bush about:

The world is a turn off for me because it is too familiar.  We've read it before.  And since the plot isn't gripping (while the characters are cool) my personal feelings are that it needs more alien in the familiar mix.  I might be the only one who feels that way but I stand by my feelings on the matter.

[RavenstarRHJF]

Hm, I can now see your objections.  That is, incidentally, not what the setting is, but apparently I need to go back and make it clearer.  Thank you for explaining.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Thank you for putting up with my wall 'o text.  I apologize for getting long winded.

[hubay]

I think most of what I'd put in has been said already. You really should work on descriptions a little, if it's not your strong suit then the only way you'll be able to write them is by, well, writing them. A lot.  I have the same problem; usually when I finish writing a chapter the way I naturally want to, I end up embellishing everything afterwards to make it more interesting. The general sense I get from your two chapters so far is that the setting is russian-, or at least east european-inspired. If you work on that and inject the flavor here and there I think it will go a long way to helping your story.

I'll also add that I didn't get LotR at all. I did get a little bit of KJ parker's Devices and Desires– where you have a technologically and numerically under matched defender fighting the massive empire, as well as a few comic books with future tech in medieval settings. I think your generals took a little too much time explaining guerrilla warfare. Obviously, a general won't just say "oh, we'll use guerrilla tactics" and leave it at that. But if they have any experience they should be able to sum it up a little faster.

Lastly, while you might not be channeling tolkien, it's possible there's a hint of mark twain in there (a yankee in king arthur's court). the way you gave information about the emperor made me think he's either from the future or some sort of alien. It's obvious he's feeding his subjects advanced technology at a rate otherwise impossible, the only question is how. The first thing I thought of was a Justice League bit where they fight a WWII where the nazis are armed with sci-fi weapons. This might not be where you were going with that, but the short bit you hinted at smelled very strongly of that sort of premise.

All things considered, it's not terrible, but it's been done before and if that's the case I was able to pick up on it early on. If you were hoping for a big reveal later in the book  you'll have to work much harder than that, but if it's just an obvious plot point you should probably take care of it sooner rather than later, otherwise it might drag on. Of course if I'm wrong it works as a good red herring and you can ignore the last two paragraphs.