Author Topic: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused  (Read 3853 times)

Aaants

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[Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« on: August 07, 2010, 01:25:48 PM »
Hi,

I literally just finished reading the books, which I couldn't put down, and ran off to look up these extra metals.

Seems there's now 18 metals? That seems to mess up a lot of the logic in the books to me. The number of mistfallen and so on relies on there being 16 metals. I thought 'ok, maybe Atium doesn't count towards the original 16 then'... but the Atium burner army, and the logic that made it, suggests otherwise. Even God/Sazed himself tells Spook that there's only 2 he doesn't know of, yet the wallchart that supposedly answers that question reveals 4 new metals!?

Can someone point me to an explanation please? :)

The books were so well done and everything linked with earlier parts of the story, this just seems like such an oversight. That aside, I don't even like the sound of the news metals! 2 Mistborn fighting would just come down to who could 'leech' the other's metals the fastest

Thanks for any help!

Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2010, 02:24:47 PM »
As for the number of metals, that's two new metals and their alloys.  Atium and Lerasium are called the "God metals" for a reason, and don't really fit into the rest of them.  I don't have time to go really in depth.  As for the army of Atium burners...yeah, I always felt they should have been mistborn.  Then again, the chart shows the in-world understanding of how they work as of maybe a few years after the series.  Who knows what information could be completely wrong?  Compare the chart at the end of TFE to the one after THoA.  Completely different.  And people thought they understood allomancy.  And since Brandon has plans for more books in that world...
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jcats

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 03:57:35 PM »
its easy to get confused with the Metal Chart, because its not a Pure Chart, its been Changed many times.  First, you have the Natural 16 Metals, which are then changed by Ruin and Preservation by replacing two of the Metals with Atium and Larasium.  After the Rise of The Lord Ruler, he suppreses public knowledge of the chart, and the Noble families, start keeping secrets from each other, resulting in the Devolution of the chart to 10 metals, 8 Basic Metals, and 2 Time Metals.   As the books progress, new Metals are rediscovered by Vin, and through experimentation(mostly on Herself), new Alloys, which brings the chart up to 15 at the end of the Final book. (note: 8 basic, gold + alloy, atium + alloy, aluminum + alloy, larasium)  At the End of the Book, Sazed withdraws the two God Metals + alloys, and restores the two Natural Metals, + alloys.

A quick rundown of the metals remain the same. Iron, Tin, Zinc, Copper, Aluminum, and Gold.  and their Alloys, Steel, Pewter, Brass, Bronze, Duralumin, and Electrum.  Atium is not a Natural Metal, or a Natural part of the Chart, it was Stapled onto it (by Preservation) as a way to weaken Ruin.  It, and its Alloy Replaced one of the time metals on the Chart.  Larasium is also Not a Natural Metal, and it Replaces one of the Enhancement metals.

Once Sazed gathered all the Ruin/Preservation powers to himself, he stopped the Release of Atium/Larasium into the world, and restored the Original Two Metals, Chromium, and Cadmium to their spots.  With their alloys, this brings the chart back up to 16 Natural Metals.  If in a later book Brandon returns, their will remain the possibility of Sazed Releasing the two God Metals back.  but we don't know if he will, or will do something different and cool.

this is a bit of rambling explanation.

Terrisman243

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 04:55:16 PM »
One note is that the Allomantic Chart is an in-world explanation of the metals several hundred years after the end of HoA. I'm pretty sure it's the understanding of the metals at the time of the second trilogy that is planned for Mistborn.

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2010, 08:55:59 AM »
When it comes to the logic behind the mistfallen, atium replaces cadmium for the purposes of the mistsickness.
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Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2010, 04:57:16 PM »
When it comes to the logic behind the mistfallen, atium replaces cadmium for the purposes of the mistsickness.

I'm not sure I follow.  Elaborate.
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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2010, 08:05:02 PM »
Atium's the God Metal that replaced Cadmiums place on the chart.  In essence, all Cadmium mistings, and mistborn who would have been able to use Cadmium, instead were Atium burners.

I'm not sure if the same would hold true for Larasium, since the only time we see it, a Non-misting burned it to become a mistborn.  which means what ever replaced nicrosil was never found or used by TLR, or any of the other mistborn.

Aaants

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2010, 08:36:09 PM »
Thanks everyone, I've pieced together a conclusion that I can live based on what you all said :D

Still not overly convinced by those Leechers though, might make for some very dull fight sequences! Hopefully it'll be watered down to reduce the effect of metals instead of remove them entirely? Here's hoping :)

Cheers for the books Brandon, in case you ever see this!

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 08:52:36 PM »
Thanks everyone, I've pieced together a conclusion that I can live based on what you all said :D

Still not overly convinced by those Leechers though, might make for some very dull fight sequences! Hopefully it'll be watered down to reduce the effect of metals instead of remove them entirely? Here's hoping :)

Cheers for the books Brandon, in case you ever see this!

Don't forget that not all the metals are used for fighting. There could be very innovative ways of being a Leecher without it being in a fight. If it's part of a crew like we had in the first trilogy, I imagine they will be specialized for a certain task just like Breeze or Spook was.
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Aaants

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 09:12:16 PM »
Don't forget that not all the metals are used for fighting. There could be very innovative ways of being a Leecher without it being in a fight. If it's part of a crew like we had in the first trilogy, I imagine they will be specialized for a certain task just like Breeze or Spook was.

I agree with you and I can see how it'd be a useful tool for imprisoning misting/mistborn and so on; I just think it's a bit too good. I mean, imagine the Zane-Vin fight with that metal involved - first to touch the other wins! Maybe there's a loophole I don't know, hopefully copperclouds stop it or something along those lines.

Creative_Vortx

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 09:37:12 PM »
Don't forget that not all the metals are used for fighting. There could be very innovative ways of being a Leecher without it being in a fight. If it's part of a crew like we had in the first trilogy, I imagine they will be specialized for a certain task just like Breeze or Spook was.

I agree with you and I can see how it'd be a useful tool for imprisoning misting/mistborn and so on; I just think it's a bit too good. I mean, imagine the Zane-Vin fight with that metal involved - first to touch the other wins! Maybe there's a loophole I don't know, hopefully copperclouds stop it or something along those lines.

The Zane - Vin fight already had that basic structure, the first to run out of Atium loses. I do think it would be useful in a mistborn's arsenal. Also a leecher could possibly make a very good assassin in that if they are purely hunting other misting's they could wipe their metals and basically make them useless for the moment, quick kill.  Only problem is how close you have to get. Coinshot vs Leecher would be a pretty one sided fight unless the Leecher is a very quick / agile. I want to see a Parkour Leecher.  :D
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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2010, 10:26:48 PM »
I'm not too worried about Leechers dominating, since Mistborn will be extremely rare in the next novels.
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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 07:31:38 AM »
When it comes to the logic behind the mistfallen, atium replaces cadmium for the purposes of the mistsickness.

I'm not sure I follow.  Elaborate.
Preservation operates by using the number 16 to show what is his influence.  So when the mists started snapping people in HoA, an equal portion of those people became a misting of each metal.  This left Preservation with a problem, he needed there to be atium mistings, but adding that into the mix would make 17 types of mistings instead of his preferred number of 16 to let Elend know what was going on.  So he, for the purposes of the mistsickness, replaced cadmium with atium because nobody knew about cadmium.  That let there be 1/16th of those taken by the mistsickness be atium mistings, or the mistfallen, so that Elend would clue into the pattern and have his super awesome army at the end.  This didn't alter the structure of allomancy at all, just the perception of it.
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Ari54

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2010, 10:39:41 AM »
Thanks everyone, I've pieced together a conclusion that I can live based on what you all said :D

Still not overly convinced by those Leechers though, might make for some very dull fight sequences! Hopefully it'll be watered down to reduce the effect of metals instead of remove them entirely? Here's hoping :)

Cheers for the books Brandon, in case you ever see this!

Don't forget that not all the metals are used for fighting. There could be very innovative ways of being a Leecher without it being in a fight. If it's part of a crew like we had in the first trilogy, I imagine they will be specialized for a certain task just like Breeze or Spook was.

Leeching a Seeker, for instance, could be very useful.

rjl

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Re: [Spoilers] Just finished Mistborn... confused
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2010, 11:25:05 AM »
The thing tha weakens leaching is that you have to touch the guy, an touching your oponent in a fight isn't actually that easy....