Author Topic: Wheel of Time: Reading Order (New Spring and The Eye of the World Spoilers)  (Read 9212 times)

Terrisman243

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This is a little off topic, but I noticed that BS said he was making a wiki for the Stormlight Archive. Will this be made available to us at some point? (Probably when he finishes the series?)

Peter Ahlstrom

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Doubtful, since it would reveal things not meant to be revealed.
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SamuelR

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New Spring is best read after books five or six (I reccomend reading it right after five ;) ).

Any specific reasoning why it's best to read at that time?

Yes, but it's a spoiler. Suffice to say, a certain event happens that would give New Spring more impact, and reading New Spring right after the event (book 5) would, I daresay, give the strongest impact :)

In regards to readers finding Mat's portrayal in TGS as "off", you're not alone. A lot of others do too. However, many others (including myself) thought his portrayal spot on. I think it made a lot of sense for him to act that way-"forcing" humor reminiscent of the first few books-considering the recent changes he has gone through, in particular the change he never thought he would go through ;)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 05:03:25 AM by SamuelR »

Comatose

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ARGH!! You comments make me itch to continue reading, but I'm over two thirds done the Name of the Wind, and I'm enjoying it so much I just have to finish.  There's also the small matter of the chapter I promised myself I'd have finished for tomorrow.  It is now two chapters, and still two viewpoints to go.
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Hobbun

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Any specific reasoning why it's best to read at that time?

Yes, but it's a spoiler. Suffice to say, a certain event happens that would give New Spring more impact, and reading New Spring right after the event (book 5) would, I daresay, give the strongest impact :)

In regards to readers finding Mat's portrayal in TGS as "off", you're not alone. A lot of others do too. However, many others (including myself) thought his portrayal spot on. I think it made a lot of sense for him to act that way-"forcing" humor reminiscent of the first few books-considering the recent changes he has gone through, in particular the change he never thought he would go through ;)

Ahh yes, I know what you are referring to now. And as yourself, will refrain from mentioning it as it is a pretty big spoiler.

And again, with Mat, it wasn't something I had observed myself, but what I have read in many reviews of others. By the time I get to the point of reading TGS, it's probably something I will forget about and won't even notice any difference, anyways.

ARGH!! You comments make me itch to continue reading, but I'm over two thirds done the Name of the Wind, and I'm enjoying it so much I just have to finish.  There's also the small matter of the chapter I promised myself I'd have finished for tomorrow.  It is now two chapters, and still two viewpoints to go.

Heh, I know how you feel. I am in the process of finishing up the Drizzt novels before I head off to GenCon (only 8 1/2 more books) and once I do that, then I will be going to some of Brandon's solitary works and finally then to my re-read of the WoT. But like yourself, it's something I want to go to 'now'. 

Just think of it this way, you only have to finish up one  book.   :)

Comatose

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Drizzt!  How can you stand that many.  I've read a fair number of his books, some parts are good, but he annoys me so much though!  I actually can't stand him.

100 pages to go in The Name of the Wind!  Someone broke into our house last night, and long story short, I ended up staying up until 3:00 reading.  I was almost asleep at 1:30, but then... Funny how things happen.
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Hobbun

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Drizzt!  How can you stand that many.  I've read a fair number of his books, some parts are good, but he annoys me so much though!  I actually can't stand him.

100 pages to go in The Name of the Wind!  Someone broke into our house last night, and long story short, I ended up staying up until 3:00 reading.  I was almost asleep at 1:30, but then... Funny how things happen.

Oh, Drizzt is one of my favorite characters and Salvatore one of my favorite authors. A couple of the books are a bit slow, but it has nothing to do with Drizzt. I’m basically doing a reread of the entire series and as I said, have about 8 ½  books left. I have read...17 of them now within the last month and a half? Should have them done by the end of July.

These books are of course not as complex as the more epic series’ (like WoT), but they are fun reads.

guessingo

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@Hobbun: I am not criticizing Brandon. All I am saying is that his style of writing is the polar opposite of Robert Jordan. You can see the difference in the first part of the prologue. The book was done well. He did a poor job with Matt. It wasn't awful, but poor. It is the kind of thing that I think alot of people would get wrong. Matt is tricky to write. How to make him matt without making him a dope.

Brandon is a darker writer than Robert and a more straight to the point writer. His writing style is closer to what you often see in a modern thriller. Robert Jordan keeps a slower pace and is more flowery. He is closer to a leisurely Tolkein style, but if Jordan wrote the Lord of the Rings with would be 8 books instead of 3 due to all the details.

Another example. Did you see the Suvudu Death Matches where different fantasy characters fought each other? Patrick Rothfuss's character Qvothe fought George RR Martins character Jaime. They each did a write up of their scene. When you read each of their stories you will think that they nailed their characters but the other guys characters don't have quite the correct voice . That being said, it is not fair to expect Brandon to copy another authors style. I don't think Robert Jordan could copy Brandon's style.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 06:20:36 PM by guessingo »

Hobbun

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No, I never saw those death matches. I have never read Rothfuss, to be honest and did not hear about him until Comatose brought up he was reading The Name of the Wind.

But I do understand what you are getting at and I agree with you, it is not fair to another author to get a character (who is difficult to write) exactly right. But that being said, you still don't want to see large discrepancies with characters in a continuing series from one book to another. It would be one thing if another writer tried to write that more difficult character in a short story (like in your example of the battles), but if you are continuing the 'main' series (like WoT), you want those characters to flow from book to book as much as possible. It really is a tough situation for Brandon, because as you said, Mat is more difficult to write.

What is good is from what I hear is Brandon has done a good job with the rest of the cast (do you agree?) and whatever discrepancies with Mat does not detract from the overall great job that Brandon did. As I said, by the time I get to TGS, I most likely will not remember the issues with Mat and maybe will not even notice it.

guessingo

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This probably explains Brandon's problems with Matt (from the interview)

"I do wish I'd had was more time to polish the book. There was no more time; that book had to come out last year. The drafting process was so quick—I did 17 drafts of that book across the space of just a short number of months. Anytime you do a draft, artifacts show up. You say the wrong thing, or you're thinking about one scene while writing another, and shift the tone the wrong direction. Or you just delete a word here or insert the wrong word."

From Brandon's perspective, the book had to come out soon because the people signing his checks said so. However, I don't know why Harriet could not slow it all down. Maybe she just wants it done? It is a big burden that Robert Jordan left on her. I doubt TOR could really tell her what to do. MArtin takes years to get books done and he does not have the sales that Jordan does.

If fans need to wait an extra year so Brandon could improve the book, too bad for us. We will live. I guess its just business. Brandon must have lived and breathed this book to get it done.

Shivertongue

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@Hobbun: I am not criticizing Brandon. All I am saying is that his style of writing is the polar opposite of Robert Jordan. You can see the difference in the first part of the prologue. The book was done well. He did a poor job with Matt. It wasn't awful, but poor. It is the kind of thing that I think alot of people would get wrong. Matt is tricky to write. How to make him matt without making him a dope.

Brandon is a darker writer than Robert and a more straight to the point writer. His writing style is closer to what you often see in a modern thriller. Robert Jordan keeps a slower pace and is more flowery. He is closer to a leisurely Tolkein style, but if Jordan wrote the Lord of the Rings with would be 8 books instead of 3 due to all the details.

Another example. Did you see the Suvudu Death Matches where different fantasy characters fought each other? Patrick Rothfuss's character Qvothe fought George RR Martins character Jaime. They each did a write up of their scene. When you read each of their stories you will think that they nailed their characters but the other guys characters don't have quite the correct voice . That being said, it is not fair to expect Brandon to copy another authors style. I don't think Robert Jordan could copy Brandon's style.

I thought he did fine with Mat. Seemed perfectly in character to me. That was what surprised me most about the reactions to TGS, people feeling that Mat was out of character.

I suppose it goes back to that interview Peter posted the link to, in which Brandon said people come into the story with their own ideas on how the character is supposed to be, after reading them for 11 books. I felt Mat was one of the most spot-on in terms of characterization in TGS; the only one I really felt was off, and not by near enough to make me upset, was Siuan Sanche, and some bits of Gareth Bryne. I loved their scenes, but I felt the characters were off a bit.

Also, Brandon isn't trying to write like Jordan. He's said he feels that if he attempted to copy Jordan's style, it would come across as parody. What he is trying to do is write like the Wheel of Time.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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This probably explains Brandon's problems with Matt (from the interview)
That quote doesn't have any relation to the Mat issue. He's talking about minor cosmetic issues there.

Some people thought Mat was the best part of the book. An approximately equal number of people thought he was the worst part of the book. That doesn't mean Brandon did a poor job writing Mat, it just means he did something DIFFERENT with Mat that was not what he intended.

Also, saying Brandon's writing style is the polar opposite of Jordan's is an exaggerated quantification. Brandon owes a lot of his stylistic influence directly to Jordan.
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Hobbun

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This probably explains Brandon's problems with Matt (from the interview)

"I do wish I'd had was more time to polish the book. There was no more time; that book had to come out last year. The drafting process was so quick—I did 17 drafts of that book across the space of just a short number of months. Anytime you do a draft, artifacts show up. You say the wrong thing, or you're thinking about one scene while writing another, and shift the tone the wrong direction. Or you just delete a word here or insert the wrong word."

From Brandon's perspective, the book had to come out soon because the people signing his checks said so. However, I don't know why Harriet could not slow it all down. Maybe she just wants it done? It is a big burden that Robert Jordan left on her. I doubt TOR could really tell her what to do. MArtin takes years to get books done and he does not have the sales that Jordan does.

If fans need to wait an extra year so Brandon could improve the book, too bad for us. We will live. I guess its just business. Brandon must have lived and breathed this book to get it done.


Yes, I agree. Like yourself, I would prefer they (as in Brandon and 'Team Jordan') took whatever time was required to put out the book. If it took until June of this year, instead of the October 2009 release date, I would have been fine with that. And the same would apply for ToM and AMoL.

There is no need to rush the last three books by any means.  The closest I can think of is the contract was set up with Tor for a year apart for each book and Brandon and Harriet are trying to honor that. But yes, I agree in that it's not like Tom (Doherty) is going to play hardball if the book has to be delayed.

I would be curious to hear the necessity of getting the books out quickly. Maybe Peter could shed some light on the issue (if he is able to say).

Oh, and one last thing, like you, I am amazed on Brandon getting these books (TGS and ToM) out on time. Considering he has also had to honor other contractual obligations, as well. You would think someone would just get burned out. We are lucky that Brandon truly loves to write that much!

Peter Ahlstrom

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Well, it's clear that Tom Doherty really wants one book per year, but how much he NEEDS one book per year I don't know. I mean, I doubt Tor will have huge financial problems if book 14 doesn't come out next year (which it almost certainly will not). But the publishing industry as a whole is going through tough times right now. And I believe TGS was Tor's only #1 NYT bestseller in 2009.
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Hobbun

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Ok, thanks Peter.

Yes, TGS made complete sense in rushing to get out. I remember Brandon saying one of the main reasons on why A Memory of Light was split into three books was because both Brandon and Harriet felt it was very important to get out a book by 2009 due to it was 4 years since KoD. And I agree.

And just to clarify, none of us are trying to come across as critical (at least speaking for myself) in putting out the books too soon. We only are saying we would rather Brandon be able to take that time to polish the book like he wants to than to keep that year timeframe. In a way, I am glad to know AMoL will ‘not’ be out in 2011. I am sure it has a lot to do with his other obligations as well, but I am guessing (hoping) part of it is because it is the final book and Brandon wants to make sure it is as ‘perfect’ as possible.

One thing Brandon has made clear in all his blog posts/interviews over and over is that the books are done right before they go to press. And from what I have heard of TGS, he is definitely in the right direction.