Author Topic: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*  (Read 6388 times)

DarkEnigma

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2010, 07:04:21 AM »
I give up.

Chaos

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2010, 07:08:31 AM »
I politely disagree with your analysis, DarkEnigma. Please don't take it personally.
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Fireborn

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2010, 07:13:06 AM »
I give up.
...I honestly don't get why this bugs you so much.  The way you see the character is obviously different than the way everyone else and, more importantly, the author do.  You are entitled to your view but you keep saying that our view is wrong while you don't seem to consider either that you might be mistaken or that there is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinion, which is what you're arguing about.
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Wolfstar

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2010, 07:12:54 PM »
You have put a lot of thought into this, and I'm sorry the scene didn't work for you.  I enjoyed it, mostly because Telden sold the scene for me.  But also, this scene isn't without precedent.  She took Zane's false atium, remember?  She even said in that scene "Gee, why would my enemy give me atium?  Oh well." [NOT AN ACTUAL QUOTE!]  Then, when he was destroying her at Keep Venture, she even tried to use it.  Zane had proven wiley enough at that point that he could have in fact poisoned her with it.

Yet she tried anyways.

I had no qualms with this at all.  It felt plenty natural, perhaps even, because I would have been inclined to make the same choice.  But that's a different argument altogether, for I am not Vin, and there are many other choices she made that I would not have throughout the trilogy.
You can think without acting and you can act without thinking... but which is worse?

Obsessiforge

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2010, 09:22:00 PM »
the point about Zane's fake atium is actually a really good one. I'm saddened it slipped my mind. Seems like there's a growing base of evidence supporting Vin's actions.

Comatose

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2010, 04:42:30 AM »
Thought I'd take a turn playing devil's advocate,
When Vin takes Zane's atium and uses it, you must remember that Zane had been subtly soothing and rioting her emotions for the whole time he's been around her (at least whenever she wasn't burning copper).  It doesn't say so in the book, but it does in the annotations, and when you reread carefully, you can see where she feels exactly the way Zane would want her to feel, thus, unless Yomen had someone soothing her (which I don't think he did because someone mentioned he had no allomancers other than himself), they aren't really the same scenario.
I don't think her chance at the pewter trick was out of character, I just think that Zane's atium can't be used as a precedent in this argument.
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Obsessiforge

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2010, 07:07:46 AM »
I forgot about that in the annotations, but I do remember it reminding me I should go back and reread those passages and look for the influence. Good call.

I still think that the Zane incident is an indicator that she can be impulsive though, simply because of how limited soothing and rioting can be. I think the key word is that his influence is subtle. Kelsier and Breeze both taught her that emotional allomancy is about enhancing what people are already feeling. In that moment, then and there when Vin downed that atium, the stress level was at a point where subtle influence would have meant nothing. Her own adrenaline would be overpowering everything. in THAT situation, the impulsive act of swallowing the bead was her own.

Valkynphyre

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2010, 03:27:08 PM »
Another point in which her character is revealed to be reckless at times, and thus very likely to do just what she did with the poisoned wine:

(I feel like Alexandre Dumas)

In The Final Empire, she runs right back to Kredik Shaw, even when she highly suspects that there will be Inquisitors who can kill her easily, and TLR to contend with! It's brave and goes entirely against any self-preservation instincts she has. She is of course, captured then, too. It's the same kind of situation, really. She rushes in with full knowledge of the danger and hopes that her metals can save her.

So, no, I don't think her drinking the wine is much of a stretch at all.
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Obsessiforge

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2010, 07:05:21 PM »
yep, the Kredik Shaw incident was mentioned earlier as well.

Wolfstar

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Re: Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2010, 11:00:13 PM »
Thought I'd take a turn playing devil's advocate,
When Vin takes Zane's atium and uses it, you must remember that Zane had been subtly soothing and rioting her emotions for the whole time he's been around her (at least whenever she wasn't burning copper).  It doesn't say so in the book, but it does in the annotations, and when you reread carefully, you can see where she feels exactly the way Zane would want her to feel, thus, unless Yomen had someone soothing her (which I don't think he did because someone mentioned he had no allomancers other than himself), they aren't really the same scenario.
I don't think her chance at the pewter trick was out of character, I just think that Zane's atium can't be used as a precedent in this argument.

Fair enough ;)
You can think without acting and you can act without thinking... but which is worse?