Author Topic: Length of Fantasy Novels  (Read 5900 times)

Jexral

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Length of Fantasy Novels
« on: May 02, 2010, 10:33:13 AM »
So... I'm very nearly finished with my first novel - I am finishing up all the major revisions that I know it needs, and then passing it out to some people to make sure that I didn't miss something.  I plan on trying to publish it when it is finished, assuming I don't decide it is a pile of garbage (which I don't expect).  However, it is only about 300 pages long, which is MUCH shorter than most fantasy novels that I have read.

Maybe this is an absurd question, but is it too short?  I mean, I tell the story that needs to be told, but I just can't shake the feeling that it is too short.  <shrug>  Obviously you can't really tell me for sure, since you haven't read it, but what do you think?
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Nessa

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 07:27:20 PM »
That will be something for your alpha readers to tell you when they read it. It's hard to make an assessment here without seeing it first. Yes, fantasy novels CAN be short.
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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 07:39:12 PM »
So... I'm very nearly finished with my first novel - I am finishing up all the major revisions that I know it needs, and then passing it out to some people to make sure that I didn't miss something.  I plan on trying to publish it when it is finished, assuming I don't decide it is a pile of garbage (which I don't expect).  However, it is only about 300 pages long, which is MUCH shorter than most fantasy novels that I have read.

Maybe this is an absurd question, but is it too short?  I mean, I tell the story that needs to be told, but I just can't shake the feeling that it is too short.  <shrug>  Obviously you can't really tell me for sure, since you haven't read it, but what do you think?

Fantasy novels can be short, as Nessa said, but it's difficult to judge page count compared to page counts on an actual book, since a book's page count varies on publisher and whether it is paperback or hardback, etc. A better judge is word count, at least when it is in the manuscript format.
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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 08:21:54 PM »
As long as it's not short because the story needs more filling out, as Nessa and Chaos have already mentioned, I don't really see why that should be a problem. Assuming you're using standard manuscript format, you're probably up at around what, a hundred thousand words? That should be fine.

Examples of short adult fantasy (I assume you're writing adult, otherwise you probably wouldn't be worried) that I can think of offhand... Greg van Eekhout's Norse Code. No idea what the word count is, but the book itself is a little under 300 pages in printed form.

Jexral

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 10:10:19 PM »
It's about 75000 words.

Also, thanks... That's what I kept telling myself.  <shrug>  I feel a little silly for worrying about it, really.
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Nessa

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 03:53:35 AM »
It's typical for urban fantasy to run around 90,000 words, give or take, and there's a LOT of it out there. It can get away with a short word count because it's based on a world we know, with the paranormal stuff added in. Neil Gaiman's Stardust doesn't even reach 300 pages, and OSC has several shorter fantasy novels. To name a few examples.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 07:18:04 PM by Nessa »
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 05:02:02 PM »
I believe Baen still likes their first-time novels to be around 80,000 words.
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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 09:03:26 PM »
Simon R Green's Nightside series is around 75K per novel.  I wouldn't stress about length.  I know a few agents who have told me that they can always have an author fill in stuff later.  As long as the material you have is strong, they don't seem to care too much.
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Justice1337

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2010, 05:30:56 AM »
It's about 75000 words.

Also, thanks... That's what I kept telling myself.  <shrug>  I feel a little silly for worrying about it, really.

First post, so I thought I'd give my input on something I have at least some idea about :L

75,000 words could be fine, depending on the structure.  Word length is the most brute measure of stucture integrity there is, sort of like looking at a company's assets to determine how profitable it is.  But, there are some things to look at that will give you some idea about what your ideal word length is likely to be:

1) The central idea of your story.  Orson Scott Card teaches in his symposia that there are really only 4 types: Character, Idea, Event and Mileu.  If you've heard his shpeil, you'll know what I'm talking about and can adjust, otherwise I'll just asusme the story is an Event story, since most Fantasy is.  An event puts the world out of balance somehow and the characters struggle to restore it.  These tend to be shorter than Character stories, but longer than Mileu stories.

2) The type of conflict.  There's a spectrum of physical/psychological conflict, with each story striking its own balance without ever going to one extreme.  The more physical your conflict is the shorter your story will be.  Fantasy usually has very physical conflict themes.

3) Your choice of scene versus summary.  This is where 90% of the problems with word length come from.  Every scene has some measure of summary, and the best structured stories have as much summary as the reader expects and/or wants.  The quickest reading stories use summary very well.  Publishers want the story to be quick reading as much as they want it to be cheapt to print, so they too want more summary.  BUT... Tolkien wrote with one of the widest scene/summary ratios of any author with his kind of popularity.  Fantasy readers almost expect you to drone on about how the mountains in your world look, for example.  So, you as an author need to decide for yourself how you'll structure your writiting.  There's really no incorrect decision here as long as you're consistent; you just need to and alter your expectations of word length accordingly.

But assuming that all three of the above conform more or less to the typical idea of what mainstream, high Fantasy should be, 70,000 to 90,000 sounds about right.  Most books that go over 90,000 is because the writer failed to clip enough scenes or wanted to include more than necessary for some personal purpose of his/hers.  You should also keep in mind that at the novice level the ratio of stories that are too short to those that are too long is about 10:1, but at the professional level that ratio is almost exactly inverse.

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 05:36:31 AM »
Personally, I find that the size it ends up being naturally is the right size for a book, because every one is different.  My first book I wrote was 90,000, but that had a lot of "and then they did this, and then they did that" type of story telling (they did a lot of things in that book).  Every book after that has never been shorter than 105,000 words, but that just where stories sit comfortably with me.  I can develop plot and character and close it off nicely in that time.  The longest story I wrote was close to 140,000 words, which I managed to cut down a little to 135,000, but even then that's long for a first-time novelist.
For your story, 75,000 words is probably just what feels like a natural length, and when you pass it on to other readers, ask them what they thought of the length and whether there was anything that needs developing more.  Every person I had read the book I'm querying with told me I didn't spend enough time/development with one character, and I ended up adding another 3000 words, so who knows; you're book may end up 80k before you start querying.
I don't see book length as a problem, though.  I would think mainly about the content instead.
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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 02:04:07 AM »
I good book has to be between 50,000 and 100,000 if you want it to be considered by a publisher. For amateurs, start off small. Don't plan your 10 book epic for your first published work. I have seen many authors where the first book is a flop, and you hear nothing else from them ever again. Publishers don't want to lock you in to big contracts until they know that you have a nice fan-base and popular books. I actually work in a bookstore, and I hate when there are these big books which are so hard to fit on the shelf and damage so easily. Small books are not necessarily bad. Only authors who are renown best-sellers will be given shelf space to write big fat books, like Brandon's WoK.
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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 04:10:01 PM »
I good book has to be between 50,000 and 100,000 if you want it to be considered by a publisher. For amateurs, start off small. Don't plan your 10 book epic for your first published work. I have seen many authors where the first book is a flop, and you hear nothing else from them ever again. Publishers don't want to lock you in to big contracts until they know that you have a nice fan-base and popular books. I actually work in a bookstore, and I hate when there are these big books which are so hard to fit on the shelf and damage so easily. Small books are not necessarily bad. Only authors who are renown best-sellers will be given shelf space to write big fat books, like Brandon's WoK.

Except this isn't completely true.  There are a ton of authors being picked up whose novels are "considered by a publisher" that clock in at well over 100K.  I think it is generally safer to start with "smaller" novels, but if a person wants to write a 150-250K word novel for their first, they have just as good a shot as anyone.  If your story is quality, it has a shot.  Essentially, tell the story you need to tell.
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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2010, 12:07:40 AM »
Agreed.  A good rule of thumb is to do some research on the particular niche genre you're writing in.  (urban fantasy, YA fantasy, sci-fi, swords and scorcery, epic fantasy, etc.)  Count the words on an average page and calculate thier totals. 

I will say that unless your writing is naturally very tight, I'm somewhat skeptical that 75k is enough to sufficiently carry a novel.  I say this because, if the writing needs to be pared down significantly, there will be little left.  Having said that, I haven't read your novel so I can't speak definitevly on its efficacy.  If its your first novel then odds are its not going to be the one you sell.  No shame in that.  I would suggest revising, querying, and all the rest for experience.  If it is amazing then agents will let you know.  In the meantime work on crafting your next novel, learn from your mistakes, and don't worry too much about length.

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 06:55:16 AM »
I hear 80-100K is ideal, though fantasy/sci-fi can push 120K and be fine for 1st time authors.  As others have said, however, it depends on the story.  The 1st book I wrote (dropped project for now) was 140K, and though agents expressed misgivings, they still looked at it.  Of course, I still got rejected in the end, so take that as you will.  :D

I'd just look it over, polish it, and see if you get any nibbles.

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Re: Length of Fantasy Novels
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2010, 01:42:46 AM »
Check out the Earth Sea books by Ursula K. Le Guin. Fantasy can be awesome and short.