Author Topic: Olver Theory  (Read 2412 times)

darxbane

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Olver Theory
« on: April 14, 2010, 06:49:21 PM »
During a re-read of TGS a little while back, something seemed to click with me regarding Olver's description.  He is described like a squashed down Eelfinn!  Could this be the surprise Brandon has mentioned will happen in TofM that nobody's thought of before?  What do you all think?
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Shivertongue

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 07:17:17 PM »
Hmm... never thought of that before. Seems unlikely, but it that is the case, it makes sense how the boy ended up with Mat...
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Adrienne

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 07:31:31 PM »
I can't see it, but then again I always thought Olver would end up being Gaidal.  I believe Jordan said no it wasn't though :(

guessingo

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 01:50:43 PM »
That is not a very Robert Jordan thing to do. He does not just throw out plot twists out of no where. he forshadows more than that.

I am pretty sure olver is going to figure out how to get out of the tower ghenjei.

You are better off putting wheel of time ideas on tarvalon.net. Loaded with WoT fanboys there. They may have already discussed this.

darxbane

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 03:29:00 PM »
Actually, it wouldn't be that random of a plot twist.  We know there is something about him that is special, RJ has confirmed as such.
Point 1) His appearance is constantly, constantly brought up in the story; noticeably more often than any other character except maybe Loial, which is probably why everyone thought he was Gaidal Cain reborn.
Point 2) He is absolutely obsessed with the Snakes and Foxes game, almost as if he wants Mat and Co. to be reminded that the Finns can't be beaten (either that, or he is a Moiraine sympathizer, and is trying to show Mat how to win, in his own weird way). 
Point 3) No matter what has happened, Olver has managed to stay with Mat.  He is never far from him for long. (this last point is a little weak, as several plot devices could explain this).  If you have time, take a second to re-read the first Mat   chapter in TGS again, then re-read the chapter when Mat meets the Eelfinn.  I'm not saying I am right, but if I am, it's not a random plot twist, it's a diabolically clever one.
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Adrienne

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2010, 10:15:27 PM »
I believe that the letter only mentioned Matt, Thom and one unknown person.  I can't see them taking a child into the tower...

Shivertongue

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2010, 11:13:14 PM »
I believe that the letter only mentioned Matt, Thom and one unknown person.  I can't see them taking a child into the tower...

I think the current theory is that Noal is the intended third.
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Renoard

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 12:54:59 PM »
I've always thought that Olver is the narrator of the books.  I think Olver is one of the places that Rigney put himself into the books.  The Gaidal Cain angle is interesting, but Olver isn't quite ugly enough. :)  Still it's possible.  Shaitain has been working so hard to convince everyone that this is the last turning of the wheel, but I've wondered if it's not possible that this is also the FIRST turning.  It might be that the major figures that set the first archetypes are the ones that we are reading.  If Rand repairs instead of sealing the bore, then the whole cycle could start over again.

But Olver had Cairhienin parents and he knew them both.  I don't think he's at all a 'finn.  not even a half-elf.  But I've been wrong before.
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Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 05:42:26 PM »
Don't name the Dark One!!!
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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2010, 02:21:23 AM »
I read an awesome theory once that Min was a Finn, or at least part-Finn. The theory said that the Finns kept and raised humans for clothes, and Min escaped the Finn realm. There was all kinds of evidence, like the fact that Min sees auras above people's heads, and when Matt visits the Finn through the doorway in Tear, they look above his head to answer his questions. Or that Min is from roughly the same area of Andor that the Tower of Ghengi is located.


Min the Finn. It was awesome.

Renoard

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2010, 04:37:19 AM »
One huge problem with that theory is that she has family and memories that place her growing up in Baerlon.  So that's not possible.  I think we have to just accept that no character in play, except some of the darkspawn have any possibility of being finns.  It's remotely possible that Shaidar Haran is made from a finn instead of a Trolloc.
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Shivertongue

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2010, 05:20:29 AM »
One huge problem with that theory is that she has family and memories that place her growing up in Baerlon.  So that's not possible.  I think we have to just accept that no character in play, except some of the darkspawn have any possibility of being finns.  It's remotely possible that Shaidar Haran is made from a finn instead of a Trolloc.

Mat is evidence that the Finn can place memories in people's minds. Granted, they can only do so for people who have been to their realm, but I can't recall any mention of Min's parents. Just three aunts. It's possible, if not probable, that she was sent to Randland by the Finn as a baby and adopted.

Of course, someone will likely come along with a quote from one of the books mentioning her parents.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2010, 03:45:54 PM »
Submit the theories to @Theoryland on Twitter for Friday's wacky theories panel.
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Omelethead

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2010, 07:41:28 PM »
One huge problem with that theory is that she has family and memories that place her growing up in Baerlon.  So that's not possible.  I think we have to just accept that no character in play, except some of the darkspawn have any possibility of being finns.  It's remotely possible that Shaidar Haran is made from a finn instead of a Trolloc.

Ahh, sorry, I didn't make it clear, but I don't think the theory was ever really a true theory. The author didn't seem to really believe it (and I didn't), but it was very well put together, and I kind of wish it were true.

I will point out that the only family she seems to remember/talk about are three "aunts".


I remember reading it on Wotmania, so I went and used the internet's wayback machine to try and find it (wotmania closed down about 8 months ago). I found this one, but I seem to remember another one. The comments kind of flesh out the idea a bit, maybe my mind built up its awesomeness since it's been a while since I last read it.

Anyways, here's the theory:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040223044157/wotmania.com/theorypostdbtheory.asp?ID=181&Category=RandLadies

And the Wotmania Theory Post had a lot of good ones:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080612102920/www.wotmania.com/theorypost.asp

Renoard

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Re: Olver Theory
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2010, 03:49:23 AM »
It is a little disappointing that he went to the trouble of developing the Ael and Eel (eel fins <smirk>) but used them so little.  SO I guess it's natural to look for more places they might have been included.  On the other hand a friend of mine is very disappointed that he included archetypes from so many different traditions.  She thinks it's all too much and goes from creative to cutsey somewhere around book 3.  I dunno I think he managed to make it work, mostly (though GALahAD and GAWaIN bother me.

Olver is a fun character.  It's too bad he doesn't get more lines and action.  I liked him better when he was stealing Matt's horse and flirting with barmaids.
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