Author Topic: War -- What Is it Good For?  (Read 2194 times)

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War -- What Is it Good For?
« on: June 02, 2004, 10:14:04 AM »
article reference: http://www.timewastersguide.com/view.php?id=716

I don't remember talking about this when it first ran, so let's do.

well? can we connect Vietnam and WWII through video games and somehow come out the otherside better people?

stacer

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Re: War -- What Is it Good For?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2004, 05:52:52 PM »
I don't know about the video game issue, but I do want to say that this article counterpoints nicely with the issues brought up by The Best War Ever. It's good to talk about our perceptions of WWII compared to Vietnam, and how that relates to our perceptions of the soldiers who fought them. I mean, WWII vets were people, just like anybody, but we've built them up in our collective imagination to be the "can-do" generation. Were they all can-do? Did you know that as of 1993 or whenever the book was published, 25% of American WWII casualties still in VA hospitals were psychological? This was compared to a 3% rate in some other war or country... hrm, now I don't have the book in front of me. At any rate, it was interesting to note. Sorry about the lack of factual basis. I'll have to correct that later.
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Re: War -- What Is it Good For?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 12:32:41 PM »
I think any connection we think we might get is mostly an illusion.  Fell mentioned how the games were a sanitized version of the war, and unless there is a game out there that makes an effort to really show the atrocities, they will continue to be sanitized.

One of the big limitations of a game is that, generally, there is only one person reaching for the goals the game establishes.  A war involves tens of thousands of people, on each side, many of them what we might call non-combatants, but who still get involved.

Does the Vietnam game have a kid with a hidden grenade come to greet a platoon, and then blow up in the middle of it?  I honestly don't know, but if it did, suddenly you've got to kill every kid you see, or risk death yourself.  This is the kind of darkness that soldiers have to deal with, even today, and something that, if included in a video game, would seriously detract from the enjoyment of playing, IMO.  (I guess there may be some people out there that like the idea of killing children, but they need to be locked up, not catered to by the gaming industry.)

A war game, like any other game, has a set of rules that is, in some instances, completely arbitrary.  Learning the rules and using them to accomplish the goals given you is the fun of the game.  Though there may be similarities to actual events and situations, it seems to me that we haven't gotten to the point where the games are being made for historical accuracy first, and fun in play second.  I doubt we ever will.  What kind of connection we can make with those resources is probably up to the individual, and their perception.  I certainly wouldn't want to say it was all a waste of time.   :-/

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Re: War -- What Is it Good For?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2004, 07:26:33 PM »
I think a lot of the mental problems associated with WWII had to do with the way they used units. Unlike Vietnam or Korea units stayed on the front line in combat almost all the time unless you got hit. In vietnam you got leave, you could go to Saigon or China Beach. (yes it was a real place) you could sit out and drink beer and eat steaks and every effort was made to make Vietnam as much like home as the army possibly could.

Imagine being gone from home for two years or so and being almost constantly engaged with the enemy. With maybe a month of real rest every year. Imagine all the people you went to basic with dead. Take the small town of Bedford VA. One of the 29th Infantry Divisions companys was made up of 33 men all from the small town of Bedford, basically every man in the town over the age of 17 and under 40. By the end of June 6 1944 22 of them lay dead scattered over Omaha beach like wheat chaff. 22 guys you grew up with. Imagine how sane you'd be if 22 buddies of yours were killed in a single day.
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Re: War -- What Is it Good For?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2004, 07:46:07 PM »
That's kind of one of the points the author made about WWII--that of those who saw combat (and the percentage was quite small), most of those stayed in combat for way too long. It makes me wonder about the guys in Iraq right now whose tours of duty keep getting extended.
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Mad Dr Jeffe

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Re: War -- What Is it Good For?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2004, 09:25:22 PM »
as an example the Big Red 1, the US first infantry division was engaged in combat from 1942 until 1945 with only a few months of rest. It served in North Africa, Sicily, France, Belgium, and Germany until late 1945. Major operations included Kasserine, D-day Saint Lo, Aachen the battle of the Bulge/Hurtigurn

The Divisions casualties were : 3,616 KIA(killed in action), 15,208, WIA(wounded in action), 684 later died of wounds. Keeping in mind that the Army designates a division as a unit containing around 10,000 to 15,000 soldiers that means at some point almost 100% of the Division was at least wounded. Ok not exactly, after all there were plenty of replacements,... straight from the States and rappel dappels. Line troopers who were unwounded stayed on the line without leave. Any way you look at it 3 years are way too long to be in almost constant combat.
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