Author Topic: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)  (Read 4553 times)

MrMLK

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Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« on: November 23, 2009, 03:09:40 AM »
Let me start off by saying that I am a huge fan of Brandon Sanderson's writing. I have read Elantris (twice), the Mistborn Trilogy (once, but I plan to start a reread next year) and I am on my second reading of Warbreaker. So please don't think of me as a troll. I think he is one of the two best writers of fantasy working today.

But, as I was reading Warbreaker yesterday, it occurred to me that the system of feeding breaths to the returned doesn't really make much sense. Why would they go out of there way to find your children to give up their breathes? Can you really picture  Allmother turning some random child into a drab each week?

Wouldn't it make more sense to go and find old and dieing people and get their breaths. Nothing in the book says anything about breath getting stale, so you would think these breathes would be just as good. In fact, you would think a cottage industry would start up where almost no one would die without selling their breath for the benefit of their family.

And another thing, if Vivenna really wanted to get rid of all of her breath except one, she could have awakened a rope or something small, and then dumped the rest of her breath to someone or something and then retrieved the one breath from the rope.

The second point is just the math nerd in me, but I really think it would have made more sense if they were turning old people into drabs, rather the young children.

Any thoughts?

Michael

Morderkaine

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 03:40:53 AM »
The thought of awakening a small object, or just storing one breath in and object, and then reclaiming afterwards also occurred to me but I chalked it up to Vivenna's inexperience with awakening and/or her wanting to guarantee she kept her original breath. As for the Returned getting their weekly breath from children instead of the weak/sick/aged/poor/dying probably has something to do with the whole idea of virgin sacrifice and the innocence of children.

happyman

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2009, 03:39:58 PM »
Vivenna not carefully reclaiming one breath for herself wasn't a mistake in plotting or the development of the magic system.  It was deliberate on Brandon's part.  He wanted to portray her as lost, confused and somewhat inept when it came to Breath.  Your proposed method is perfectly sensible.  That Vivenna didn't do it says something about Vivenna, but on purpose!

I don't know why it was primarily children that gave their breath to keep the returned alive.  I think that thematically, Morderkaine's answer contains truth, but that's not really an in-story reason for why Hallandren would do it the way they did.  Maybe they believed (or maybe it is even true) that children's breath would do a better job of keeping the Returned alive.  After all, the breath is shown to reflect the health of the individual who donated it, and different breath's are claimed to have different strengths.
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MrMLK

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 09:41:17 PM »
Maybe they believed (or maybe it is even true) that children's breath would do a better job of keeping the Returned alive.  After all, the breath is shown to reflect the health of the individual who donated it, and different breath's are claimed to have different strengths.

I don't remember anywhere he said that different breaths have different strengths. Just the opposite, the book says things like "you need 50 breadths for the first awakening....", not "50 young breadths" or anything like that. Or it said you need one breadth to bring something to independent life.

Michael

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 10:51:44 PM »
It's probably because young children/their families need the money they get from donating their breath and the old, dying people--not so much. Or all the old, poor people have already donated their breaths.
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MrMLK

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 11:00:29 PM »
It's probably because young children/their families need the money they get from donating their breath and the old, dying people--not so much.

Well, some of the old people would have families that might need the money, and the rest - as long as they were still breathing - could probably still use the money for themselves. I know a fair number of old people, and none of them have run out of a use for money.

Or all the old, poor people have already donated their breaths.

Why just poor? I would suppose that a middle class person on their deathbed still could use some money, but doesn't have much need for their breath any more either. I imagine rich old people would give their breath to their favorite child as part of their inheritance.


Michael

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 11:06:19 PM »
Well, it seems to me that most people would like to keep their breath if at all possible.  So they would have to be in dire circumstances before considering giving their breath away.  Just my opinion.
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firstRainbowRose

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2009, 11:08:50 PM »
Lightsong questions this himself.  Also, doesn't he say that they're always checked to make sure the children are healthy?  If so, it might be that hold people are considered too unhealthy.
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

MrMLK

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2009, 11:11:26 PM »
Well, it seems to me that most people would like to keep their breath if at all possible.  So they would have to be in dire circumstances before considering giving their breath away.  Just my opinion.

I agree. That's actually my whole point. People are their deathbed are in a better condition to sell then kids.

Michael

firstRainbowRose

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 11:13:42 PM »
Yes, but you missed my point.  I think that they are checked to make sure they're HEALTHY.  If they're on their deathbed they certianly aren't healthy.
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

MrMLK

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 11:15:54 PM »
Lightsong questions this himself.  Also, doesn't he say that they're always checked to make sure the children are healthy?  If so, it might be that hold people are considered too unhealthy.

I don't remember this. Do you remember where he says this?

Since people with a lot of breaths cannot get sick, if this is true, it would certainly imply that he wanted healthy kids for a different reason, but it does seem to go against everything else Brandon says about breath.

Michael

MrMLK

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 11:18:15 PM »
Yes, but you missed my point.  I think that they are checked to make sure they're HEALTHY.  If they're on their deathbed they certianly aren't healthy.


Would dieing of old age be considered "unhealthy"?

Plus, I am not a grandfather, but I would imagine that if I was a healthy 70 with a young grandchild that I was fond of, I would give up my breath before I made him/her give up theirs.

Michael

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 11:34:25 PM »
It's probably like organ donation. It sounds like a great idea, but not everyone is an organ donor because it is too weird or inconvenient or whatever. And I agree the health of the individual is probably a factor.
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happyman

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 11:59:43 PM »
Maybe they believed (or maybe it is even true) that children's breath would do a better job of keeping the Returned alive.  After all, the breath is shown to reflect the health of the individual who donated it, and different breath's are claimed to have different strengths.

I don't remember anywhere he said that different breaths have different strengths. Just the opposite, the book says things like "you need 50 breadths for the first awakening....", not "50 young breadths" or anything like that. Or it said you need one breadth to bring something to independent life.

Michael


It states in the Ars Arcanum that the number of breaths for the different heightenings are approximate, depending on the strengths of the breaths.

When Siri is tested before her, um, first night in Hallandren, she is described as being healthy and having a strong breath.

When the Idrian ambassador is dieing, his breath is described as going irregular.

But admittedly, any such link has not yet been made explicit, and these descriptions may just represent popular in-world beliefs anyway.
Nature hates being reified.

Czanos

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Re: Thoughts about Warbreaker (Could be spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 02:15:36 AM »
Whenever I read that particular passage, I've always interpreted Lightsong's words to be more emotional than truthful. It isn't always children who give up their breaths, but Lightsong cares much more about it when they do, and so to him it seems to happen much more often. On top of that, children are probably more willing to give up their breaths, especially if their parents urge them to. The older people are either emotionally attached to their Breath or have sold it already.
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