Author Topic: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite  (Read 1749 times)

Frog

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Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« on: November 09, 2009, 05:44:56 AM »
Starting this for Cynic since I am so unbelievably speedy... :)

Okay, are you sitting down? Good. Here it goes. I like it. I actually did. Here is some questions for you though.

Who is this guy? Are you redoing your MC? If so, cool, but it does make me wonder what ever else you will be changing.... I guess I will have to read and find out. You don’t need it here, but you will be giving more of his background soon, yes? Because that is what I am reading for and expecting from the next chapter at this point.

Some complaints: I think you may have some more unnamed people (with the soldiers and the guard and the knight and everything else) then is feasible and your description goes a bit long at the beginning, making it harder to get into even if it was worth it by the end. Another minor gripe is that in all the guy's speach making, you never have anyone explain the exact logistical and practical reasons for their exile where as I would think this would be the perfect opportunity and avoid some of the confusion for a new reader. Also, the middle scene was a bit abrupt the way you ended it. It could easily be extended a bit and bring out more of the character of both parties.

I’m sending you my line edits, so I think that is about it.

Good luck. :)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 05:49:38 AM by Frog »
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Recovering_Cynic

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 06:16:58 AM »
To answer one of your questions, yes, this is the main character.  I didn't like the name I had given him previously (Jarl was too close to Jagoth and sounded pathetic anyway).   Also, I think you are right about the middle scene.  I will be extending it some and I already have some ideas as to how.  And yes, the next chapte is a flash back.

Thanks for the critique!
this is the way the world ends,
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lethalfalcon

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 07:48:43 AM »
Glee!

First off, I'm really liking it. I didn't read the prologue, so this is all new to me, but I doubt the prologue has much bearing on this, given the 18 year time gap.

One thing that really got on my nerves was how repetitive the adjectives got. The wiry man was repeated so many times it eventually just started popping out in the text, catching me each time. I'm sure he had other qualities (and you used a few), and a name, so by that point I don't think it's wise to keep calling him "the wiry man", or moving his "wiry frame". Unless he gets fat eating on prisoners, he's still going to be wiry. You could always use synonyms if you want to hammer home how thin he is. :)

Now for a bit of good news. I loved the scene description. It was very easy for me to visualize almost everything throughout. The characters, the dingy cage with the huddling masses, the prison environment.... It was beautiful (in a macabre sort of way).

I was a little confused about the whole blue lights around the campfire and what it all meant, but that'd probably be explained later in the book, and I don't really think an infodump on constructs and the magic systems is appropriate here.

Another thing that confused me a little was how the cage was actually being transported. At times, you refer to it as a cart, which made me think of something on tracks; other times, it's a wagon, suggesting something animal-drawn. The way it was rocking though made me think it was a gondola lift (cable car). Perhaps that could be expounded upon a little.

When Baltier awoke the second time, why did he think he had arrived at the eastern frontier? Given that he had told the waif to wake her up when she saw Direthune, and that's what she did, what gave him the impression that he was at the eastern frontier?

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Chaos

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 04:22:42 PM »
Hum.

Let's start with praise. Baltier is a cool name, and he seems like an interesting dude. Most of the description is quite compelling, it worked well. Setting wise, I see the king is still immortal, or at least that's what the priests want everyone to believe. Is the king going to be a viewpoint character?

I liked it all right. It read quickly and easily, which is always a plus. I agree with Frog that the middle scene could be extended a bit. But as a whole, it was good, with one major quibble:

I don't know Baltier.

We're hinted that he's done some really bad things, but I can't venture to what those things are. I don't know much about his personality except that he's a hard person. Though, there's some hints that he has some good in him, with the way that he acts towards the waif. The way he says "And I'm a very light sleeper" gives the impression like "Don't mess with them, or I'll kick your ass." I don't know if this is the correct impression, because it could be exactly the opposite. The point is, I want to see dimension to Baltier. I feel I don't know him well enough and his facets. All I'm seeing is a single conflict, really. I want something more. So, you haven't captivated me yet with him. I want to feel utterly grounded in the characters, and instead, I'm slightly perplexed. Maybe that's what you want, I suppose.

I'm just saying, I'm more interested about the king's conflict with Asharia than Baltier. Perhaps if I was grounded in Baltier more effectively, you wouldn't have to use a flashback. I don't know ;) I'll wait until I see more. You can get closer to the character, I think.

There's a couple of line things, but this made me think "what": How exactly does one stand on top of a moving cart? (Much less Baltier know it's a dark-robed man) Is the priest some kind of Bruce Willis here? ;)

It's solid. I await more!
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Jexral

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 04:47:48 PM »
First and foremost - I really liked this rewrite.  Having read your other submissions, I feel that they get better and better with every one so far.

I agree with Chaos that we can't really know Baltier yet, however, I don't think that is a flaw.  We just met the man.  If we knew everything about him, it would be too much information, and would only serve to take the mystery out of his character. 

There were a few typos, that I'm sure falcon caught in his line edits, but other than that I can't really think of a way to make this better.  I really liked the level of description that you put in, and the characters are interesting.  I'm really interested, though, to see in what way this story can possibly relate to the other story you gave us.  :)
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Chaos

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 05:00:37 PM »
I agree with Chaos that we can't really know Baltier yet, however, I don't think that is a flaw.  We just met the man.  If we knew everything about him, it would be too much information, and would only serve to take the mystery out of his character. 

True, it's an extremely difficult balance to get right. I don't want infodumps about his history; I guess I want the feeling that with everything he does, I get a better sense of who he is.

If that makes any sense :P
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LongTimeUnderdog

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 08:28:23 PM »
I found it less interesting, personally.  The prologue was nice because we were able to see conflict right away, lots of it.  In a very intense situation dealing with a choice no one (okay, sane people) never want to make.  Because of that, it was interesting.

In this chapter, we have a guy who is just oozing with apathy and while I'm sure he has a lot of redeeming qualities, if he doesn't care, we really don't care.

 I agree with the previous posters that a good deal of it was too short.  Now of course that doesn't mean longer is better (not that I actually needed to tell you) but that getting anything more would be great and make the piece more interesting to read.  Because, right now,  it just isn't that interesting.

More setting details, that would do it for me.

Oh and one more thing . . . why are you guarding prisoner wagon with polearms?

Recovering_Cynic

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 08:54:58 PM »
Hmm... good question.  Don't really know.  Perhaps this particular guard liked jabbing people in the butt with it?  Do you really think it's a big error?  In reality, there isn't much security at this point because these prisoners are about to be let go so they are less likely to run (although they may not like where they are going, hence the reason for guarding them; their destination isn't prison, but it's still not very pleasant).

« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 08:57:23 PM by Recovering_Cynic »
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LongTimeUnderdog

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 10:40:30 PM »
Of course it's not a big error.  I'm just curious.

A halberd is, by design, a weapon used to fight heavy armor/mounted targets.  Gives a great deal of reach and punches armor pretty good.  The reason I ask is I'm not thinking the prisoners are going to be armored targets.  If it's the only weapon he has, of course he's going to use it.  It's more of a world building question then anything.

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 04:08:22 AM »
Hmm, see, I'm gonna have to disagree with Chaos, because I think Baltier's character IS progressing with everything he does. 

But Underdog is right- a polearm, while intimidating, isn't the ideal weapon to be poking people in the butt with when they're close to you- it's too long and unwieldy.  Personally, I had the impression the guards were standing very close to the transport.

You do need to be more consistent with your description of said transport though.  A cart is usually a two-wheeled wooden contraption with half-sides, no roof, and an open back end.  A wagon is generally longer, with four wheels and usually four enclosed sides, but again, made of wood and with only half sides.  I think the closest you got to what you're intending (based on description of bars and rain falling through them) is the cage idea.

Good rewrite! It looks like you're setting things up nicely.
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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 03:16:32 PM »
I'll have to second some of the things said here...and bow to the previous posters' amazing knowledge of carts and polearms... :D

I like the start. The brand immediately grabs me. Although the abusive prison guards seem a little cliche. Some great description. I like the slithering rain.

How old is the waif girl? Are all these people pedophiles?

The roaring and rushing backward to try and hurt a guard over a little poke seems a little overdramatic unless he's a berseker or something.

I find the character intriguing enough I'd continue though his background is vague.

The wind-pipe crushing seems intense, but its a good way to demonstrate character. How did the waif survive in a place that encourages people to do that to each other?

What does Jaksune look like?

I wonder if Baltier would really sleep. He had to know he would be attacked, and he wasn't that light a sleeper if Dane's claws are in him when the girl's scream woke him.

I was confused because Baltier implies Dane is reaching for the girl in the dialogue, but he's reaching toward Baltier, clawing at his legs, when he wakes up.

Wakeup call may be an anachronism.

I like the dialogue.

I was confused about whether the ribbon of blue light was pressing against the ground or if it was floating upright or at a perpendicular angle or what. I'm not getting the image you're trying to send. You repeat the word campfires an awful lot.

I'd like to know more about the Constructs. I'm willing to wait, but it might be nice to throw a hint my way.

I like your symbol that replaces asterisks.

I'd read on if I saw this in a bookstore.

Andrew the Great

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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2009, 11:15:09 PM »
My only real gripe with this is that at the end, you mention Constructs, but don't tell us a thing about what they are. As a reader who has no idea (remember I haven't read anything you submitted before), I either want to hear a bit more about what they are, or not have them in there. Otherwise, I'd just kind of gloss over it.

Other than that, I thought it was excellent, considering that it's only Chapter 1. I agree, I don't really like not knowing Baltier, but that's part of what will get me to keep reading. I liked the prologue better, but I typically do like prologues better than 1st chapters. That's kind of the nature of a prologue.

There were a few things that confused me with the situation between the King and Asharia, but I imagine they'll be explained later on.

Overall, though, this is really, really good. Keep it coming! (by the way, I've noticed that this is one of the more commonly used phrases on this particular board)
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Re: Nov 9 - Recovering Cynic - Oathbound - Chp 1 Rewrite
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2009, 03:32:21 AM »
I don't have a whole lot to say here, I'm afraid.

I enjoyed the first chapter. It lets the reader know precisely what kind of story they're going to be reading. It gives us a good sense of the setting and the characters and what kind of (immediate) challenges they'll be up against.

There's not a whole lot of information here in terms of backstory or, uh, frontstory (in that we have no idea how what the main plot is going to be, just that things sort of suck if you're an exile). I don't think that's a flaw, particularly given the shortness of the chapter. But we should start getting some--not answers, but hints--in the next couple of chapters.

Regarding the wiry man: Yeah, he probably has a name, but it seemed like Baltier didn't know the names of most of his fellow exiles (the exception, Dane, actually introduced himself) and there's no real reason he should. So just for clarity's sake, I had no problem with him always being referred to as "the wiry man". You probably can cut back on the "his wiry frame" bits though.

I was also a little bit unclear on how the cage was being transported, and where the priest was standing in relation to the cart, etcetera.

I've gotta agree with Jexral. I don't know Baltier very well yet, and I don't think that's a flaw, as we've only just met him. It seems to me like there's stuff under the surface and I'm willing to wait for the rest of it.

I was a little surprised when nobody--even the priest--seemed to care when Baltier killed that dude. I can't quite decide if I think that was problematic, or only surprising.

Aaand that's all from me. Good work.