Magic Systems

[lethalfalcon]

I always thought that a music based magic would be neat, that way no one is "more powerful" just more adept.

I know LOOM (the game) used musical magic, and there was a musical Adept in Piers Anthony's Apprentice Adept series.

It's still a fun system, though. Especially when you start dealing with sympathetic and dissonant combinations in duets/duels

The basic rules are relatively simple: It's the ability to move and convert different types of energy at the cost of a little wastage- for instance using the wind to move objects around

Ari, what's the wastage in your system? Is it that some of the energy is permanently lost? I.e. you're using the wind to move things around, but it's not 100% efficient because you can't concentrate the wind on just the object? Or is it something more personal, such as your Idamancer's personal costs (fatigue, blood loss, memories disappear, somesuch)?

[Ari54]

The basic rules are relatively simple: It's the ability to move and convert different types of energy at the cost of a little wastage- for instance using the wind to move objects around

Ari, what's the wastage in your system? Is it that some of the energy is permanently lost? I.e. you're using the wind to move things around, but it's not 100% efficient because you can't concentrate the wind on just the object? Or is it something more personal, such as your Idamancer's personal costs (fatigue, blood loss, memories disappear, somesuch)?

Part of the wastage is in the magic used to create Ida, (which I cannot talk about for spoiler reasons, but suffice to say there was a significant up-front cost) and part of it is in the fact that an Idamancer isn't 100% efficient. Unless she uses some sort of magical turbo-charging stunt, of course, which is known to happen in fantasy now and again.

So yeah, you get a weaker wind or tide when you mess around with kinetic energy. If you were to dance a flame across multiple candles, you'd need to give it time to build back up or you'd eventually kill the flame. I have a character who is adept at moving flames, and uses them as punishment.

Innate strength in Ida is about transmission efficiency, which improves to some degree with practice. The best Idamancers in Dreamspace achieve about 90% efficiency. Skill at Ida is the ability to move a larger amount of energy at once while maintaining efficiency, to convert energy types, and to move energy across multiple channels at once. There's also some neat pseudo-chemical themes to the magic, as they think of energy in terms of "elements". ie. chemical potential is called "earth energy", gravitational potential "air", kinetic "water"*, heat "fire", electricity "lightning", and magnetism "metal". Idamancers on Temeros haven't discovered nuclear energy just yet, but I imagine they would call it ambient energy.

*Which leads to some strange talk about wind being water energy moving through the ether and the entanglement of air and water, so that wind contains water energy and rain contains air energy. Pseudoscience is fun.

[lethalfalcon]

That sounds vastly more fun than your original description led me to believe, and I'm now much more intrigued. I shall have to read some of this when/if it's ever available.

[Handsome Bob]

and here i thought i was being unique and different, with six billion people on the planet i guess its a little hard to be different. 

[Ari54]

That sounds vastly more fun than your original description led me to believe, and I'm now much more intrigued. I shall have to read some of this when/if it's ever available.

I'm first-drafting Dreamspace now, and I intend to make it available over the web under a CC by/nc/sa licence in order to help build an audience while I build up my writing portfolio. Check my website sometime next year, or follow me on twitter if you're curious how I'm going. I don't want to pimp my work here though, as this is Brandon's forum and that's pretty disrespectful, so let's stick to magic systems themselves from here on?

Ida is one of three primary magic systems featured in Dreamspace, and there are another four or so that get minor roles or foreshadowing. I'll probably talk about Eno here later, (It's the counterpart to Ida, hence the similar yet different names) I just haven't got to drafting the bits that use Eno heavily, so its costs aren't as well thought-out.

and here i thought i was being unique and different, with six billion people on the planet i guess its a little hard to be different. 

I think trying to be completely unique is a bit of a fool's errand. The really interesting thing to do is to come up with a really well-themed magic system that suits a particular story, and has interesting mechanics that augment what you want the magic to do in your world.

[Fodder]

Crazy science fiction based magic.  Some previous entity or culture setup guardian technology (think "memory of earth') that enforces a magic system in a more primitive society.  The trouble is that the bad guy (or simply misunderstood) was able to interfere with the system causing it to change magic systems once a week.

Great fun because you can use all the magic systems from your favorite books in one go. 

This is far in the future and our hero has to ransack a library to discover which magic system is in effect and how to use it.

[Ajbcool]

Oh goody!  This should be fun.

I've got one I've been cooking up.  It's sort of a twist on the traditional four-elements systems....

The world is made of....lots of things.  But without Energy, these things have no shape and form.  Energy molds them together to make the world the way it is.  There are five Streams, and they all act in different ways:

Physical - the most noticeable.  Shapes physical objects.  Users are called Builders.
Temporal - Shapes time.  Users are called Timers.
Mental - Consciousness.  Thought. Sentience.  Users are called Thinkers.
Elemental - What the traditional 'four elements' fall under, like heat, cold, etc. Users are called Chargers, or Burners.   Or something.
Spiritual - The Energy of Energy.  Molds the other four Streams into a cohesive, collaborative whole.  Users are called Binders.

The individual strength in manipulating Energy is different for each person.  The less skill you have in a Stream, the harder it is to get better, but the shorter it takes...does that make sense?    The way someone uses Energy is they merge portions of each Stream together to get a certain effect.  Some mixtures have multiple effects; your Mental strength determines whether or not you get what you want.  Or something...still have things to iron out.  Basically, it's like mixing a formula.  Get it right and you do something.  Also, the general rule is that if you're using more than one Stream, you HAVE to have Spiritual too.  Same goes with 'linking' multiple people together to combine their strengths.


What do you guys think?

[Patriotic Kaz]

Am i the only person on this forum who has developed a "magic system" based on mind over matter which in turn utilizes genetics (including mitochondrial DNA which is constantly mutating), ki breathing techniques, and a bizarre interaction with a bacteria that was transplanted to earth by a comet? Ok good.


P.S. the background is that we are in the equivalent of 6000 AD... and around 2400 AD Yellowstone erupts causing the death of most technology and the majority of the race.... Volcanic winter last for the next 60 years (survivors develop mild psychic abilities)... 300-1000 years later Wormtongue (the meteor in Revelation) hits with the bacteria the disaster forcing  us to evolve still further. And by resonanting with the bacteria our developing psychic abilities to are  pushed way past their limit.

[Fodder]

Champion,

Do you have a story to tell within that version of the future?  I'd read it.

~fodder

[Batchman]

Am i the only person on this forum who has developed a "magic system" based on mind over matter which in turn utilizes genetics (including mitochondrial DNA which is constantly mutating), ki breathing techniques, and a bizarre interaction with a bacteria that was transplanted to earth by a comet? Ok good.

Nope ... you aren't the only one.

Though I chose to use a Kestrallian philagree to vorticise the DNA for the intrinsic quantum flux, thereby creating the subserviant race of Ninja Assassin jellyfish. Am still trying to figure out the controlling matrix for that one ... may take me a while.





Nah ... just kidding. You are the only one.

(Madness, I tell you! Dogs and Cats living together in SIN!)

[Patriotic Kaz]

There is indeed a story and when i get back from Genetics and Business Public Law i'll post the gist of the plot and the political structure.... if you noticed there is a huge gap from the background to the time the story takes place (6000 AD)

[Patriotic Kaz]

Ok well there are two PoVs for the first segement Cain Meyerson (the name is for irony) who is the "sole" survivor of House Clandestine, and Hunter Buchanan (named after my childhood best friend and i have no idea why i did this) of House Virtus (latin for energy). Everyone is organised into Houses based on a genetic mutation both on the X chromosome and your mitochondrian DNA (which can be inherited paternally though it is rare Cain however did inherit his through his father). House Clandestine has no noticable ability which confuses everyone b/c there are 3 noble houses Steel (ability based on vibrating skin= armor), Virtus (can convert matter into large amount of pure energy), and Clandestine (increased perception of electromagnetic waves) your house is ussually determined by your maternal genes. Most of the other Houses owe allegiance to these three houses. Clandestine wishes to set up a global republic and is destroyed by Virtus and Steel. Cain lives and is out to destroy everyone involved or profited from it. He is emotionally unstable and hallicunates that his twin/ lover is constantly ashamed of him as she holds their unborn daughter in her arms. (the fact that he loved his sister isn't a fantasy of mine but gene splicing ecetera would make it safe to reproduce at this time with relatives though it would still be taboo and therefore makes him more unstable). Hunter tried to prevent the violence and is imprisoned only to be accuitted. 4 years later Cain starts to move and Hunter picks up on subtle clues that Cain is alive. Hunter wants peace which Cain thinks is ridiculous because Steel and Virtus are vying for dominance. Hunter sees Cain's revenge as endangering the social order and means to kill him (though at the same time condemns himself for planning to do so to his one time friend). Cain sees Hunter as an obstacle that must be removed, though he owes Hunter a debt and would avoid killing him if at all possible. The story is more or less to very powerful, intelligent friends trying to do what is right and being pitted against each other for it, though it evolves further as the arch continues.

[Ari54]

Crazy science fiction based magic.  Some previous entity or culture setup guardian technology (think "memory of earth') that enforces a magic system in a more primitive society.  The trouble is that the bad guy (or simply misunderstood) was able to interfere with the system causing it to change magic systems once a week.

Great fun because you can use all the magic systems from your favorite books in one go. 

This is far in the future and our hero has to ransack a library to discover which magic system is in effect and how to use it.

Yeah, I have a draft with a scifi/fantasy crossover a little similar to this. I like the twist about the magic systems getting changed around by the villain though, that's neat!

Oh goody!  This should be fun.

I've got one I've been cooking up.  It's sort of a twist on the traditional four-elements systems....

The world is made of....lots of things.  But without Energy, these things have no shape and form.  Energy molds them together to make the world the way it is.  There are five Streams, and they all act in different ways:

Physical - the most noticeable.  Shapes physical objects.  Users are called Builders.
Temporal - Shapes time.  Users are called Timers.
Mental - Consciousness.  Thought. Sentience.  Users are called Thinkers.
Elemental - What the traditional 'four elements' fall under, like heat, cold, etc. Users are called Chargers, or Burners.   Or something.
Spiritual - The Energy of Energy.  Molds the other four Streams into a cohesive, collaborative whole.  Users are called Binders.

The individual strength in manipulating Energy is different for each person.  The less skill you have in a Stream, the harder it is to get better, but the shorter it takes...does that make sense?    The way someone uses Energy is they merge portions of each Stream together to get a certain effect.  Some mixtures have multiple effects; your Mental strength determines whether or not you get what you want.  Or something...still have things to iron out.  Basically, it's like mixing a formula.  Get it right and you do something.  Also, the general rule is that if you're using more than one Stream, you HAVE to have Spiritual too.  Same goes with 'linking' multiple people together to combine their strengths.


What do you guys think?

Sounds a lot like TOP from Wheel of Time- which is not necessarily a bad thing, that was somewhere between being a hard and a soft magic system. I assume you've got more rules to it than you've outlined? Because essentially what you've posted is more of a "theme" for a magic system than a set of rules governing its use.

[Patriotic Kaz]

Was my earlier post coherent? i didn't check it and didn't realize how much i posted.... there are probably gaps in my thoughts....

[Valkynphyre]

I have One I'm ok with sharing.

Cannibalism. You eat human muscle, you get stronger. You eat a human eye, your vision increases. The amount by which your abilities increase is directly proportional to how  'fresh' the meat is.

Often, in their wills people will bequeath body parts to their kin.

Simple, yet creepy.

I think what I like most about this is that it gives me the opportunity to create a serial killer who is a hero.


So, answer me truly. Am I a bad person?