Author Topic: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*  (Read 55500 times)

Cynewulf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #180 on: November 28, 2009, 11:03:09 PM »
I am indeed not kidding you. The book would have benefited immensely from another three months of editing. Additionally, Sanderson should really have been allowed the time to research the series more. I am very pleased with his performance, I think the book was very good. Yet I also think that if he had been allowed more than a mere three months to re-read, he would have done an even better job. That is, I believe, also the reason that Sanderson now is saying that book 13 might be pushed back to March 2011. This, I would applaud.

You should turn down the hyperbole, a little. The "countless others" that you cannot remember is Alan Romanchuk, the third of three (3) editors who worked on the book. I think they did a fine job, but with a few more months it would have been better. There are several inconsistencies and continuity errors which have nothing to do with "interpretation of the notes". They are annoying, and take something away from the enjoyment of the book. Not a lot of it, but some. These errors are present through one thing only; a lack of time. The editorial process was really rather short.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 11:04:47 PM by Cynewulf »

Patriotic Kaz

  • Level 30
  • *
  • Posts: 1746
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Antagonist of the Ages
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #181 on: November 29, 2009, 07:38:05 AM »
To treat a hypothesis as fact or to believe it as fact.... which is seems you do... with little evidence other than your fragile "belief", while common to all of man, is foolish.
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

Cynewulf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #182 on: November 29, 2009, 05:16:35 PM »
That must have sounded very eloquent in your head. I do not see any relevance or coherence in that little proclamation, though.

Anyone familiar with literature will see that this book would have been better if its author had been allowed more time to research the background material, and the editors more time to edit it - instead of rushing it to print the way they did.

Also, my "evidence", is not based on "fragile belief" (very poetic), but is seen in the sheer amount of spelling errors, continuity errors - for Christ's sakes, there are blatant continuity errors from the end of Book 11, which they really should have found - and careless language. Anyone but a blind man would recognise that this novel would have been better if Sanderson had been given more time.

Edit: I should comment again, because some of you seem to construe these posts as very harsh criticism and personal attacks on their favourite author. They are neither. I was very pleased with the book, but it did need more editing.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 05:24:24 PM by Cynewulf »

Patriotic Kaz

  • Level 30
  • *
  • Posts: 1746
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Antagonist of the Ages
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #183 on: November 29, 2009, 06:33:33 PM »
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you (and my personality is blunt not flowery or poetic), what I am saying is that we don't no what additional time would accomplish. All books have problems in editing, time doesn't fix it and if used improperly leaves the same amount or more. Not too mention that fans are impatient and the longer they push it out the more likely they are to lose their reader base. Still it is an unknown by all acounts, the fact of it's likliehood is immaterial b/c it didn't happen.
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

douglas

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 295
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #184 on: November 29, 2009, 06:39:07 PM »
I won't argue the spelling errors, there are certainly a number of those, but the only continuity error I recall (which group Sulin is with) has been explicitly stated as not an error.  I'm guessing she will be shown taking an Asha'man-aided trip from Perrin to Rand in ToM, and we already know that Rand's timeline has advanced a lot more than Perrin's in TGS.

So, could you list the continuity errors you're complaining about?

Shard

  • Level 8
  • *
  • Posts: 255
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #185 on: November 29, 2009, 08:26:04 PM »
I honestly don't even remember Sulin ever going with Perrin except at Dumai Wells. I thought Bain, Chaid and Gaul were the primary Aiel with Perrin. Besides which Perrin DOES have two Ashaman with him, sure their too tired to send an entire army anywhere but they can open a Gateway for one person. Not to mention the timeline isn't perfectly synced some events taking place are not at the same time.
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Cynewulf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #186 on: November 29, 2009, 08:41:27 PM »
I could be persuaded to list a few of them, yes.

- It is stated several times over the course of CoT and KoD that Bryne has organised the siege of Tar Valon in a way completely different from the way it is depicted in TGS. The RAS army are holding the bridge towns on the west and east sides of the river. The rest of the army is held in reserve near the bridge towns, ready to rush in to fortify the garrisons holding the bridges, in case of a sally from Tar Valon. The Aes Sedai camp is far removed from the many camps of the soldiers. The reason Siuan was sleeping in Bryne's tent was not primarily that she liked being near him, but because it would take too long to return to the AS camp after finishing her chores. Now, when TGS opens, the bulk of the army has magically transported itself so that it surrounds the AS camp.

This has implications when, in TGS, Bryne and Siuan incongruously quickly manage to get one hundred soldiers across the river to free Egwene, when starting off from the camp which (in Sanderson's version) is actually pretty far from the river. It is obvious that RJ intended them to leave from a camp in near proximity to one of the bridge towns, which is where the army actually is supposed to be. Unfortunately, neither Sanderson nor one of the editors managed to see this. This is a particularly bad miss, as no research or interpretation of the notes is really needed.

- Another bad miss is seen when Dorlan, the village Gawyn is staying in, inexplicably changes sides from the east side of the river to the west. Recall, the AS are encamped on the west bank of the river. Sanderson, however, describes Dorlan to be a “two day ride” from the Aes Sedai, which is clearly erroneous, as Dorlan is not even on the same side as the AS. It would require a very large boat to get Gawyn’s horse across the river, but no mention of this is made at all. He has just ridden the distance, apparently. It is clear that RJ intended Gawyn to cross the river by boat from the tiny village downriver from Dorlan – which he knew was where Tarna and Katerine had gone to get back to Tar Valon. He would have to abandon his horse to do that, though, and buy another one once on the other side. Sanderson and his assistants have missed this, unfortunately.

- At the end of KoD, Perrin has decided to move away from Malden within the hour. He has already started sending the refugees away ahead of him. When TGS opens, he seems never to have sent the refugees anywhere, and has decided to wait several days to leave.  No explanation is given for his change of mind.

- The access key ter’angreal shrinks by half, approximately, from at least two feet to about one. This apparently to facilitate being carried around by Rand like some sort of pistol. Also, it glows red (Rand is apparently turning into a sith) when Rand channels through it. That has never happened before, and the glow should, as far as I can remember, only be visible to channelers. A bit sketchy on this one though, it might be the sheer cheese factor of the incident, with leaves blowing around his feet, trees bending, and the incongruous depiction of the balefire that threw me off the scene. I am sure I will like it more on a subsequent re-read.

Patriotic Kaz

  • Level 30
  • *
  • Posts: 1746
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Antagonist of the Ages
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #187 on: November 29, 2009, 09:47:56 PM »
Perrin gives the command for them to move in KoD but you never SEE them do so. And the RAS army has always surrounded the AS camp though i believe the camp followers seperated the two. And isn't Dorlan a bridge town listed when Egwene returns to the tower with Verin and Mat ect. so isn't it impossible to have a siege without capturing the city?
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

Cynewulf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #188 on: November 29, 2009, 10:32:21 PM »
Bryne's army has never surrounded the RAS camp. It has, as I stated, been positioned in camps between the occupied bridge towns, a good distance from the AS.

Dorlan is not a bridge town. It is located a good way east of Tar Valon, and is cut off from the city by 25 000 of Bryne's soldiers. The town Egwene et al pass through is called Darein, and lies on the west bank of Tar Valon. Why the heck would they cross over to the east bank of the river when coming from Almoth Plain?

Perrin does more than give the command (actually, it is Faile who does). Messengers are seen to be moving away with the instructions that people are to begin moving north immediately. The wheels have started turning. At this point, Perrin would have had to issue a new order to reverse this. There is no mention of Perrin having countermanded his orders, or any insight as to his rationale. It is an oversight of Team Jordan's, really.

I do not think Sanderson should be blamed for these things, he has certainly done heroically with the time given. But he should have been given more, and Team Jordan should have taken more time perfecting things. If the book had been released in February, nothing would have changed sales-wise.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 11:43:43 PM by Cynewulf »

Peter Ahlstrom

  • Administrator
  • Level 59
  • *
  • Posts: 4902
  • Fell Points: 2
  • Assistant to Mr. Sanderson
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #189 on: November 29, 2009, 11:46:08 PM »
I'm forwarding this to Maria.

Keep in mind that the previous volumes also had continuity errors and inconsistencies, many of which (but not all) were fixed in later printings. There's a large list over at Encyclopaedia WoT.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 11:47:55 PM by Peter Ahlstrom »
All Saiyuki fans should check out Dazzle! Emotionally wrenching action-adventure and quirky humor! (At least read chapter 6 and tell me if you're not hooked.) Volume 10 out now!

Cynewulf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 53
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #190 on: November 30, 2009, 12:48:27 AM »
Thank you, Peter. It is good to know these things will be brought to her attention.

I am aware of many of the errors in previous books. I am just glad they - many of them, at least - are being corrected, and I hope that will be the case for this book, as well.

Patriotic Kaz

  • Level 30
  • *
  • Posts: 1746
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Antagonist of the Ages
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #191 on: November 30, 2009, 01:01:39 AM »
Damn is a year really long enough for me to fuddle that much stuff? I've read the series several times but you begin to know it too well and just lose interest in the older books.... if this makes sense to any of you or perhaps i'm less a nerd than i thought.
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

vtaltos

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #192 on: November 30, 2009, 01:08:18 AM »
Gentlefolk...

New to the forums, but I've a growing account of respect for Brandon's works on many levels.  I started to pick up a few books on hearing that he had been given the dual-edged sword (honor and cross) of picking up from RJ on the WoT series...I couldn't imagine having to take something on of this scope, with all the baggage of loose threads and building/waivering feelings of expectations of such a fan base.  His own works I found very well written...pacing, endings (though I felt Mistborn was a bit too Weiss and Hickman for my taste...hint, hint...tragic endings I feel are too easy/trite/unimaginative...PLEASE don't let them become a hallmark!)  That all said, continuing, in general he writes a solid novel on all fronts.  The only word I can really use that seems to fit is he's a finisher...great ideas, well executed, tightly written...what more can a fan want.  He doesn't over do it, has the creativity to cast a good yarn, but does it in a complete, but reasonable scope of writing.  In other words...he's not JUST a fantastic write...he is (unbelievably given the good, albeit limited record to date), IMHO...the absolute perfect writer to have been granted this responsibility.  

Mr. Sanderson...I read TGS...any of the critics that nit pick are ignoring or don't appreciate the unbelievably immense  scope of things you had to manage in taking this task on.  I don't know first hand, but having read the prior novels...to me at least...I feared it would be impossible.  Guess what?  You hit it out of the park!  Well done.  You didn't just do a fair job of managing the continuation of the series, you channeled Mr. Rigney.  However his widow and yourself found each other for this handoff, I have to believe a higher power was involved...because you handled it beautifully.  Congratulations on a very fine piece of work...I truly look forward to reading your next two closing novels, as well as your future personal endeavors.  Thank you for doing such justice to the legacy of this series, and for an engrossing read at the same time.  

Best Regards,
vtaltos
(Yes, I'm a Brust fan too, :)...)

mtbikemom

  • Level 6
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #193 on: November 30, 2009, 02:16:25 AM »
If I need a website to recall who in the world I am reading about and what he/she has done in book 3-6, the character list has gotten way out of control.

It really has not.

Has so!  Bookstore Guy agrees, so case closed.  Am I not correct?  (BSG wisely avoids further controversy.)

O.K., I guess I'll try to grow up a bit.  Someone who can catalog that many continuity-related details off the top of his head is not the same kind of human as most of us.  Hats off to you, Cynewulf!  Vtaltos is correct, we are gentlefolk.  Except for Kaz, of course.   :o

Patriotic Kaz

  • Level 30
  • *
  • Posts: 1746
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Antagonist of the Ages
    • View Profile
Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #194 on: November 30, 2009, 08:29:18 PM »
Darn right i'm not!!! The problem is i forget things in the long term and my plans take forever to get rolling so when Chaos throws a wrench in things everything goes south... fast. Thank that evil SoB for i am an even worst master! Unless you join my church then things are cool.


Best scene in the book = Dragonmount
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz