42's Therapy Thread

[42]

So, I've left my therapists for the time being. My therapist tended to keep me more stable. Or at least less suicidal. For those of you who don't know already, I have severe depression and anxiety with a few other stuff as a result of a nervous breakdown I had almost a year and a half ago.

So this thread is mainly for me to work out my issues, but everyone else is allowed to voice their issues here as well. However be warned, mental therapy is usually really hard and is often rather painful. Also, no mocking or other acts of cruelty toward people and their struggles will be allowed. If I can't erase your message, I will give you a warning. If you ignore the warning I have a wonderful friend who is a disability officer who will have no qualms with filing a misdemeaner charge against you. And since it will be in writing you will have a very slim chance of defending yourself. Also, the penalties can be fairly large even if you live in another state or country under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

So if you are ignorant or fearful of the mentally ill. Please go away.





So my first issue: gracioucly accepting something kind from someone. This ussually isn't a problem when it's expected, but when it unexpected I have a hard time with it. I think a large part of it has to do in that I inherently see myself as a damaged person. So unexpected help feels like I'm a charity case or I'm incapable of something. Obviously that is kind of a bogus idea, because it's not like I'm competing with everyone. Also, I do lots of spontaneously nice acts to people. It's just to show that I care, not because I think of them as inferior. Yet, I have a difficult time accepting that others could possibly want to care for me. I am damaged goods after all.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Ahhh, this old house. Yeah, I've downed the same line round in here some times. Except I'm more open about the stuff. I like to tell people things. I also like tall green-eyed red-heads.

Most in partly, I don't understand how help can be unexpected. When walking through a door, its sometimes unexpected to have someone hold it open. More oft than not, I see help as being expected and then let go of and not helped at all. And being incapable of something, or feeling like it, is just a raw human emotion, no? I have no knowledge of pshycology (as can be seen by how I spell it), so I'm not Mr. Knowledge. Plus, is it not silly that you yourself do these "unexpected help's" and don't realize that maybe that person didn't want that? Such as you. I don't know, bushes were meant for beating, so I'll go round some up and do so.

[42]

I know there are some people who have a hard time when I do something sontaneously nice for them. EUOL and Spriggan are good examples. Both of them kind of squirm if I unexpectantly do something nice to them. If I'm lucky then I get a good thank you. However, most of the time they just stare in shock. Occassionally, they get grumpy about it and say something to discourage me from doing something nice to them again.

I know EUOL fiercely wants to be independent, which is admiral. However, no man is an island. My therapists have told me that it's better to be codependent with others rather than independent or dependent. Course, it's a lot easier to be independent or dependent than codependent because being codependent requires trust in both yourself and others.

I think I have a fear of myself in that I might dissapoint the person who is helping me. I speculate that Sprig and EOUL are more afraid that being helped might cost them they're independence.

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

Independently I'm saying your weird, but codependently I'm joking.

I think its rather silly to think someone can be dissapointed in you if they're helping you. The way that could happen is if they give you a sour look after they do so. Or if you're a complete jerk to them.

[42]

Yes, it is irrational. So how did I get to that point?

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

what point?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Gemm, his point is not that his behavior is justified. He agrees with you that the behavior is irrational. So... how does he behave more rationally and accept kindness graciously.

i don't have a lot of help or advice, because I'm not that good at it. But I would start with just training yourself to say "thank you" even if you don't mean it. Just make it a habit, it'll be easier to do more after that, I'd think.

[EUOL]

All right.  I know I'm going to regret this (Sprig and Tage, stop snickering.)

I'm not certain your analysis is accurate.  I don't think it's unnatural for a male in our society to feel odd receiving an unexpected gift.  You aren't 'damaged' because you are uncomfortable receiving gifts.  We are acculturated to see gifts as something exchanged, and generally--between males--something done only in expected situations.

For instance, for me to bring home a random CD for one of my roommates would be odd.  For me to offer to buy dinner when we're out to eat would not be.  I think many males would see things this way.   The mores of our society give men a gruff exterior, and while we're allowed to be generous, we usually don't buy 'gifts' for one another or do random acts of kindness for each other.  As a society, we unconsciously see it a man's duty to protect and provide for women and children.  If we transfer these duties to other men, it seems like a waste of effort.

EUOL and Spriggan are good examples. Both of them kind of squirm if I unexpectantly do something nice to them

I'm not certain if 'squirm' is the most appropriate term here.  In fact, you have always been very fond of using marked linguistic terms in order to slant the language of your text.  Regardless, again, I don't think this reaction is odd.  I wish you could provide specific examples.  However, I do think that many men would find it strange if your randomly did something unordinary kind for them--such as cleaning their room.  Good or bad, it's simply a matter of our societal stereotype.

I think I have a fear of myself in that I might disappoint the person who is helping me. I speculate that Sprig and EOUL are more afraid that being helped might cost them they're independence.

Again, your choice of marked terms is undesirable.  However, yes, you could say I'm 'afraid' of losing my independence--in the same way I'm 'afraid' of eating fish, since I don't like the taste.  I enjoy doing things for myself.  Overcoming challenges on my own makes my life more interesting, and gives me a greater thrill when I accomplish them.  

Once again, I don't think that I am deviant in this behavior.  Culturally, we value independence in our men, and we are socialized to act this way.  Your fear of letting the person down also seems natural and normal.  When someone gives us a gift we don't want, we generally try to use it anyway, so that they will gain satisfaction from thinking that we enjoyed their gift.  We don't want people to feel bad for giving us the wrong gift.

Now, as for your own spontaneous acts of kindness, I think that you might want to consider the society in which we live, and think about how people are going to respond to your gifts/actions.  Tell me--if you know doing a particular act will make someone uncomfortable, yet you insist on doing it anyway, are you really doing it out of 'kindness?'  Or are you simply doing it because you want appease your own sensibilities, convincing yourself that you are indeed a nice person?

I am not trying to be offensive in any way.  You wanted a therapy thread, so I am going to try and be as honest as I can.  I often feel a lack of sincerity on your part, 42--now, I'm not saying that you are insincere.  In fact, I think you are very sincere.  However, you definitely *come off* the wrong way a lot of the time.  I think this might be because of your critical nature--though you see yourself as a very kind person, others do not see you this way because you constantly put them down.  It doesn't matter how many nice things you do for people--if you're telling them that they're fat, useless, and stupid while you're serving them, they aren't going to care how nice your actions are.  You are very good about talking people up when they aren't around, but when you speak to them in person, you are generally negative and quick to point out their flaws.

An example of this can be found on this very thread.  I assume you started it so that you could talk to your friends about important issues.  However, you immediately began the thread with a very offensive threat about filing charges against them.  Then, in your next post, you proceeded to begin explaining why Sprig and I are emotionally damaged.  The negativity was so oppressive here that I left, never intending to look at it again.  However, I'm always up for a good discussion, and I have learned to sense the sincerity behind your offensive language, so I came back anyway.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

hmmm,
are you religious?
One way to feel ok about kindness from strangers is to be kind and give yourself.
Do you tithe? Do you volunteer?

[stacer]

If your therapist used cognitive therapy with you at all, you'll know that the most useful way you can change your feelings is self-talk. When you find yourself using negative ideas like that, talk yourself out of it. Tell yourself, "No, that's a false idea. I know that's wrong. I need to allow myself to _________ (or I need to stop _______ line of thinking and think ____(something positive) instead." It applies not only to giving and receiving gifts, but also to negative thoughts of any kind.

The most important thing about this self-talk, however, is that you replace the negative thought. When you tell yourself, "Don't think about purple elephants. Don't think about purple elephants," you're probably picturing purple elephants because you're thinking a negative. Instead, you want to replace this thought: "That isn't a right thought. Those elephants are PINK, PINK, PINK." It's visualization and changing the pathways of your thoughts. Often (and I know I have this problem quite a bit) we believe our negative thoughts because that's the side we tend to listen to. (If that makes any sense.) If we change the flow of the noise in our head, we can often help change the flow of our beliefs.

It works for me (though I must say it's taken years to get to this point, and I'm still working at it). I'm not saying it's easy, and sometimes it feels false--but why are our negative thoughts any more the "truth" than the things we know to be true and positive, or at least the possibility of positive things? Sometimes I just assumed the most negative possibility because I felt like "damaged goods," as you say, that it couldn't be possible that anyone could really do something for or say something to or care about me without some kind of hidden, negative ideas about me. THAT kind of thinking is plain false, and you know who wants you to believe them. Some of us are more susceptible to such self-lies than others and must work against them--and I'd venture, most of us work against them all the time and just have better skills.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Instead, you want to replace this thought: "That isn't a right thought. Those elephants are PINK, PINK, PINK."

Because seeing Pink Elephants is EXACTLY what 42 needs to do.

Actually, it's been my opinion for a long time that what every therapy needs to include is for the patient to realize that he is not damaged because he has problems. THere isn't a person on the planet who is 100% "normal" in all his psychological processes. Note, this is VERY different from simply saying that the problem is not a problem at all. This is simply acknowledging that while you have a problem, so does everyone. And you are not "damaged" or a bad person because you have one, even a very significant one. The only counselor I felt I made a lot of progress with talked about this sort of thing with me, and it's done amazing things for my self image and functionality.

(gee, are we all in need of therapy here?)

[stacer]

Aw, you know it was an analogy.  

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yes, but if you can't poke fun at metaphors, what CAN you poke fun at?

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

An overcrowded train track.

[Entsuropi]

I'd help, but it will cost you $10 per paragraph.