How dark is too dark?

[Recovering_Cynic]

So I'm in the process of outlining a book that I will shortly begin writing, and it occurred to me that the book is going to be *very* dark.  The main character's life was destroyed, and he wants revenge, and he becomes what would be considered the villain in most fantasy worlds I've read so far, at least for a time.  Now, I'm planning on having some redemptionfor the MC by the end of the story, but I'm afraid that I'll lose my reader long before that because this story will take place in a fantasy setting, and the story is going to break a lot of fantasy norms.  I know that I, personally, like fantasy books where the main character has at least a few redeaming qualities and is a good guy at heart, to some extent at least.

So here's the question:  How dark is too dark?  And the followup question: How do you walk the fine line of balancing too dark vs. dark but interesting enough to keep turning the page?

If I could get a wide range of opinions on this, I would really appreciate it.  I know we have a diverse group of writers on the forum, some who prefer YA fantasy that follows the general rules of fantasy (heroic journey, etc.) and some who prefer the grittier science fiction and fantasy books that have an edge to them.  I want to hear from both sides so I can hopefully find the right balance.

Furthermore, if you know of some authors who do this well, balance dark vs. readable, please give me some recommendations.

Thanks in advance.

[Bookstore Guy]

dark fantasy? Abercrombie, Martin, and Erikson (kinda), Jones, Barclay. REALLY dark fantasy? Bakker, Morgan. I have serious doubts as to whether you will do anything darker than any of these guys. Dark fantasy is great, and it is "in" right now.

How dark is too dark? If you are in the Bakker/Morgan levels of dark and try to go further, personally I think you have gone too far. Morgan especially seems to throw in unnecessary stuff just to make the novel darker. Abercrombie has a way of making truly horrible people into interesting and likable characters. Erikson and Jones are dark in tone, but without the graphic scenes that most dark fantasy have.

Really, I think you should worry less about whether people will not like the tone, and more about making sure your writing and story are good enough to make readers enjoy the novel. A book with well written characters and story will do well regardless of the tone.

That's my opinion though. Most people don't like the level of "dark" that I like. For a majority, Abercrombie and Martin are far too dark. Heck some people have deluded themselves into saying Jordan is dark (absolute rubbish. there is nothing dark about his novels).

[Silk]

*blinks*

Jordan, dark? Really?

Um... what Steve said. You could check those guys out if you want an idea. (Bakker's the only one I haven't read yet, of those. Hey, Steve - should I?)

But other than that... I'd also urge you to not worry about it too much. For one thing, like Steve said, dark is "in". For another... write the book you want to write. Go as dark as you're comfortable with, and as dark as seems necessary for the story you're writing. The balance you want is the balance that shows off your story to its best potential.

Hmm. That's vague and unhelpful. Sorry?

[Bookstore Guy]

Silk - If you were ok Reading Richard K Morgan, then Bakker will be a step up. You seem to be able to handle super-dark fantasy well, so you may enjoy Bakker. It is very psychological. The first book of Bakker's has little to no action, just be ready for that.

Cynic - Yeah, just write the book, and focus on making it the best book you can write. Don't worry about it being dark. If the writing is good, the tone doesn't matter.

[Recovering_Cynic]

Well, I have three books coming next week, and I think they'll be a good start: The Blade Itself, The Lies of Locke Lamora, and The Moon Garden.  All three have come highly recommended, but I've been told the darkest is easily The Blade Itself.  There are a few other books that I have already read which will influence my story line some: The Stars My Destination by Bester, The Count of Monte Cristo, and believe it or not, I Am Not A Serial Killer.  Yeah.  Have fun cobbling all of those together to even guess at what I'm writing. 

Anyway, thank you for the tips.  Essentially, I have to create a character (a well-written one) that keeps the pages turning even if the character is about as amoral as they come.  I'll work on that.

[sortitus]

You can have your MC killing a hundred babies a day, and the readers won't care as long as they relate to the character. That's exaggeration, obviously. I have yet to read a book that went "too dark" for me, so go all out if that's what you're feeling.

Some "dark" books add stupid stuff just to say, "Woohoo! Look at me! I'm eeeeevil." I don't like that kind. If it feels solid and necessary, then it's good dark. If it veers too far into the realm of melodrama, it's bad dark. IMO.

[RavenstarRHJF]

I, personally, don't care much for dark fantasy/urban fantasy.  This is because I read to make myself feel better and reading a depressing book where the main character makes all the wrong choices for all the wrong reasons in the name of "realism..."- yeah, that's not my cup of tea.

However, I see nothing wrong with a depressing past driving a character forwards through the book.  Just as long as he/she's going up, not spiraling further down.

For an example of something that was dark enough that I finished the book but did not continue with the rest of the series: Martin's Game of Thrones.

And as everyone else has said- you should write the kind of book you want to write and worry about the rest later.

[sortitus]

...the main character makes all the wrong choices for all the wrong reasons...

Rational anti-heroes are definitely dreadfully uncommon. Corwin of Amber (or, better yet, Brand) is a good morally ambiguous character because all of the decisions he makes are totally in character while staying intelligent. Of course, having plotting hardwired into your brain for over a thousand years of life helps with the intelligence part.

[RavenstarRHJF]

My husband read the Chronicles of Amber and really, really enjoyed it.  I might have to give it a try, just to see if it's "too dark," now.

[Frog]

Well, since you're in RE you may be getting more of my opinions then anyone should have to endure, but I still am popping in to back up some of what Raven said.
I'm not interested in dark/horror or gritty cynicism. I like to be able to take morals and feel inspired from the things I read and the worst thing any MC can do is behave in a complete amoral fashion without thought, regret or consequence. That being said, it is often, for me, more about the reasoning behind the actions then the actions themselves and I love to see a progression, meaning it can go pretty dark as long as you dangle the carrot of redemption. Endings often disappoint me more than beginnings because I want it to have impact an I hate loose ends.
But that's me and I don't often write/read what's popular so I don't know how much it should affect the way you write your book. In fact, it would probably be better if it didn't affect your writing at all.

[ErikHolmes]

My husband read the Chronicles of Amber and really, really enjoyed it.  I might have to give it a try, just to see if it's "too dark," now.

Amber?? Dark??

I wouldn't call Amber dark at all really. The best Fantasy series ever written? Yes. Dark? No.

Now The Briar King and the other books in the Kingdom of Thorn and Bone by Greg Keyes is pretty dark. Really, really good. But Dark.

[sortitus]

Yeah, Amber isn't dark. It's not high fantasy, but it isn't dark. If it had been written from Brand's perspective, it may have been dark. Even then, I'm not sure.

I was just saying that the main character isn't always a "good guy", and that other authors could learn from Zelazny's excellent character motivations.

[ErikHolmes]

Yeah, doing something "because it's the right thing to do" isn't as cool as, "because my brother wants it and I hate my brother."