Author Topic: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17  (Read 3071 times)

ErikHolmes

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2009, 01:58:17 AM »
Great chapter.

IMO, this is what could make it better:

The people seemed to go from cheering him on to wanting to kill him pretty quickly. Even killing a noblewoman. I'd suggest just slowing things down just a bit. there is tension in spades here, you won't lose any it by slowing the action down.

Rather then having the crowd cheering him in one paragraph and rioting the next, I'd like to see a more gradual change in the crowd.

I'd also like to have Garrick see the actual blow that kills Karrys. Her death did seem pretty quick and deliberate. Broken necks don't just happen. I'm thinking it was really a hit and the King planned on taking her out in the confusion. If so, I don't think theres any problem with giving us a hint of that now.

Great stuff!
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Frog

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2009, 07:37:02 PM »
Prologue: Long paragraphs and lots of details that don't get us any closer to knowing why our MC, Vardis, would throw the book on the ground. To be honest, I found all the telling details boring and started skimming, but I do have a very short attention span. You did get me interested by the end though and I liked the general idea.

Chp 1: Your style at the beginning is rather telling and passive. It's good information and it is fun, but it doesn't feel fun if you know what I mean. I think you may be describing things a bit too much and in the wrong places where it distracts from the action. It might even be effective to let the audience think Garrik is a lord and let us find out that something fishy is going on as we go. You know, less telling, more showing. But the scene has a lot of potential, and even if I don't like the wordiness, eventually you did hook me.

Chp 2: I was with you until they started talking. Lots of new words and events that I am unfamiliar with so I was quickly confused and annoyed. It isn't all that bad of tactic every once in awhile, but I felt you were over doing it. It just felt like a long info dump and honestly I wasn't very interested. I want to know what this has to do with my MCs right now, in this moment. Not a lot of history, geography or vague plans. Another problem with lots of description, is that your action gets buried. Took me a bit by surprise when the guy got stabbed because it just looked like another long description. The ending makes the whole scene seem kind of random. None of the action or conversation seemed to have anything to do with our MCs so I am probably not going to remember it. And then they leave (far too easily) without any indication of what the group planned to do with them in the first place other than ignore them while they were having an important meeting. It started out alright, but I am afraid this wasn't a good chapter for me at all. We will see about the next one.

Chp 3: I am afraid that this chapter is even worse in the beginning. You info dump about all your characters before I even have a reason to care about them. And again, you have some good stuff at the end, but there is so much build up and you seem to cut it off right when I think it is going to get good. I find that tactic very frustrating and annoying.

Chp 4: I'd watch the descriptions you use of the 'tall' 'nimble' or whatever else boy because as you seem to be in both of their heads, it gets confusing rather quickly. The line "It seems appropriate.” seems out of place, but I like that we are finally getting some real character from them. The scene with the girl and priest was good, but again it seemed far too random and out of place. When they were caught, I was wondering how they managed to find the same guards from so long ago and I wouldn't expect so much internal thought from both boys and a lot more screaming and kicking. They both seem far too eloquent and somber for street urchins, in speech and action, and it bothers me. Did you tell us about the rite of eyes before? That one concept seems more important to foreshadow than anything else so far. And I wonder why you used Dren's POV since your focus still seems to be on Garrik.

Chp 5: Lots of telliness in the beginning again. I know you want more content than style, but when you write in passive voice, tell more than you show and hit us over the head with detail it is harder to pick out character and content things because it all seems 'belch' even if I am seeing potential here and there. I don't think much of Karrys' character. She was the one that barged in so I don't see why she should have been offended by anything he said. If she really was such a delicate lady, I'd guess she'd just leave after she realized he was busy without all the fuss. And then Dren's dialogue is fairly bad as well. Since when do street urchins say 'please?' And why did they give him a mule, then try to dress him up? Those two actions seem to contradict one another. Do they want Dren there or not? Maybe you could show us more of the conflict when Garrik first tries to bring him along. I don't think this is really a good place for a flashback story of how they meet either. I liked the scene of the ball okay but I still don't care much for Karrys. I guess that she just seems too perfect and screams "I'm here to be the Love interest!" I'm also getting a huge 'Rand' and 'Matt' vibe from Garrik and Dren. Not a terrible thing, but I would work on making them more three dimensional rather than sticking so close to the troops.

Chp 7: Not much to say on this chapter. It went rather quickly and the action seemed a bit abrupt, but it was fine.

Chp 8: I liked Joeg and Jora okay, but for some reason I wasn't completely buying his whole 'freedom' speech. It was interesting, but it didn't seem to flow for whatever reason.

Chp 9: Okay, fighting time. I am terrible with these type of scenes, but I nothing stood out as 'bad.' Just moving on through.

Chp 10: Dialogue is often awkward. Try saying it out loud in your 'character voice.' Seriously, I do it all the time. And I am not buying that the Drakkin did nothing to stop their prisoners from conversing. The magic was cool.

Chp 11: You have Garrik read a sign. Can most thief/orphans read? (Interesting side note, did you know that most inns/taverns were named in the middle ages by a picture icon because most people couldn't read? Hence, the names like 'White horse' or whatever.) Not a bad chapter though.

Chp. 12 Vardis seems to be the classic 'old man' character. I didn't find the scene where he explained the magic particularly engaging, but I think your magic system has potential. I liked the scene with the puppy, maybe you could work around that some more to bring out your magic more rather than straight student/teacher format.

Chp. 13 You tell us a lot of information. I think I would be interested in seeing a lot of this play out, but I hate the history lesson. Why does he have a stallion? Rather high maintenance for a newer rider. Good break for this chapter.

Chp. 14 I would cut down some of the details on the dinner, but I liked the interactions at the beginning and end of this chapter. And yeah, for learning Garrik's age. I am finally seeing more to Dren than the Matt stand in, but Garrik is still Rand. :P

Chp. 15 I liked this chapter. Better character interaction, good magical object. Still needs some dialogue help and clear up some details, but good. I like the puppy. ;)

Chp. 16 Yea, you told me how they learned to read. Just move it up to the sign. You do emphasis the note enough that I expect something sinister to come of it.  I didn't love the scene with Karrys. I really don't see why there should be such a bond between them already. Or why Garrikk likes her so much. Need more character from her. Maybe you could try to weed/combine more of the minor characters so you can do more with your MCs to make them stand out.

Chp. 17 During the Vardis discussion, I thought they would have planned something or at least discussed the possibility of 'the question.' Seems that we all knew it was going to be a train wreck so it seems strange that the characters would have done nothing to prevent it.  I need more detail and emotion put into Karrys' death. And where did Dren go? Good place to end the first section though.

Okay, here we go. Overall, you're story is fine. I didn't run into any major problems or deal breakers beyond the minor annoyances I told you. But at the same time, I am finding very little to get excited about. Your writing seems rather detached and drawn out. I don't feel any great urgency with the plot or characters even with the climax at the end. I need more character, I need more tension, and I need you to root out the important details and show rather then tell so can avoid all the info dumps. So basically what I am telling you is that I like your story as an example of epic fantasy, but if you want to make it stand out from the crowd you are going to have to take a few more risks. Let your world fall a bit more to the background and let your characters shine as they shape the plot. I hope you don't see this all as major criticism, and more a challenge to take it to the next level, because I really do see some good potential.

Good job, just keep going! :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 07:40:04 PM by Frog »
I've already conquered the world. This is exactly the way I want it.

swaindaddy

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2009, 10:46:25 PM »
Great insight. I don't take it "hard" when I get it because I am asking for it and I want it to be honest or it is worthless.

I will be spending the next month (hopefully not 2) cracking this section into shape for a second draft then begin posting the next section.

Due to the many, many changes (some of which will address your citicisms) I just can't keep chugging along without making the changes as they are too many.

Thanks.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

Hamster

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 12:13:21 AM »
One last thing that I forgot to mention before, and in which I agree with Frog completely: Garrik is too Rand-like. And with the whole "never cry again, I'm alone in the world with my rage" vibe from the last chapter gives him the potential(in a bad way) to become another Rand.

Can't wait to see it all in second draft though, good luck with the changes.

Flo_the_G

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2009, 11:25:08 PM »
I finally managed to put a finger on the thing that's been bugging me with many of your submissions, namely that the tone of your writing oftentimes doesn't exactly fit your viewpoint character. One wouldn't expect Garrik to go spouting phrases like "youthful infatuation" and the like, and those always somewhat distract from the story.

One question this chapter raised for me was why Vardis didn't simply lie to Garrik. No, you don't have Drakkin blood, the king is a liar. Problem solved, amirite? ;)

That said, this one is the best chapter by far. You made us expect a smoochy soppy love story, and then you go and kill off half of the cast. Excellent twist.

You should definitely take things slower, though. And I don't mean only the crowd's changing reactions. You should also spend some more time describing how the mob begins pushing against the guards, how they begin to cut them down, how the guards are overwhelmed, and especially how Garrik, helplessly looking on from afar, finally loses sight of Karrys.

Then he can go push his way towards her, find her dead (the absence of silly last words was quite satisfying, by the way), and then kill and maim his way out of the city (i.e. even if he only knows how to push people, have him crush a few chests or something).

Main character embracing the dark side? Love it.

Oh, on the topic of digging graves... I did dig a fairly shallow trench once, for a power cord, and that took bloody ages. So half a day is quite accurate, I'd think.

Silk

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2009, 11:31:40 PM »

One question this chapter raised for me was why Vardis didn't simply lie to Garrik. No, you don't have Drakkin blood, the king is a liar. Problem solved, amirite? ;)


Flo makes a good point. I'd actually wondered that as well. I forget if I brought it up.

Hmm. You might want to think a bit about how slow you want to take things. I agree that your scene as it's written could certainly stand some more description, but at the same time I think part of what makes it effect is that things like this really do happen fast. And perhaps more to the point, for the people involved, they often seem like they happen fast.

~Because writing groups just wouldn't be fun if we didn't contradict each other outright sometimes.

swaindaddy

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Re: August 10 - Blade of the Fallen - Chapter 17
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 12:07:22 PM »
One way I plan on addressing that (the lie) is to go ahead and have Vardis tell him the lie then have the King mess with that knowledge at the jusdgment making Vardis very uncomfortable in such a way that Garrik sees through the lie realizing the truth then and there.

Thanks for the input!
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition