Author Topic: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships  (Read 1335 times)

Curious

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Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« on: August 08, 2009, 04:04:32 AM »
Has anyone else noticed that the "visionary/scholarly son with tyrant father falls in love with independent girl" theme has popped up a few times in Brandon Sanderson's books? Note: If you haven't read these books, don't read what's below.

In Elantris, Raoden (visionary, scholar) has a paranoid, sexist, bad leader of a father who didn't want his son to receive the throne. The girl in the picture is Sarene, who's very politically adept, and she's a very good leader.

In Mistborn, Elend (visionary, scholar) is domineered by his dictator of a father and falls in love with Vin who's a really sneaky, combat-savvy Mistborn.

In Warbreaker, there's two situations of this, but both don't have all the characteristics. Susebron (son) has no father but the priests act as a very indirect father figure (tyrant father) and he falls in love with Siri who manages to navigate through politics quite well for someone with no experience (independent). That one's far-fetched, but the beginnings of the Vivenna/Vasher romance (which hasn't happened yet in Warbreaker) has Vasher (scholar, sort-of-visionary) are more accurate in the couple's relationship, although there is no tyrannic father.

I know the connection is weak in Warbreaker, but it is there, and it's been used strongly in both Elantris and Mistborn. I wonder if we'll see any more of these in the future. Did anyone else notice?

Batchman

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2009, 06:09:43 AM »
You know what I notice? I notice that in just about everything of his I have read, people get to turn into gods.

Strange, and reoccuring.

Raphael

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2009, 06:30:16 AM »
Vasher/Vivenna? Eww, there's a appox. 280 year difference there. That's borderline fainting stuff right there.

Plasman

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2009, 06:33:15 AM »
i believe that the people becoming gods thing reoccuring is largely do to the fact that so far his books have all taken place in the same universe. i believe the overall backstory involves the great power of the universe, possibly some kind of god, Adonalsium, having its power split into 16 shards which were dispersed to various planets where they can be attained by human beings making themselves semi-gods. Ruin, Preservation, and Endowment are examples of this. (i'm pretty sure this is correct, but i may be off on some of it) Brandon's religous background may also be a factor.

as for what curious posted... i don't know. maybe brandon has father issues  ;)
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Ari54

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2009, 09:51:29 AM »
This is possibly just Brandon "writing what he knows", which makes for far more believable relationships in the first place.

Also, most of Brandon's women outside of the supporting cast are very strong, (which is a good thing) so it's more of a "Brandon keeps picking bookish heroes" issue. Given that WoK seems to have a soldier as the main protagonist you might get to look for new stereotypes soon. ;)

Plasman

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2009, 07:31:26 AM »
i also agree with delson. religion is a very natural part of humanity as we try to explain the unexplained. i think it is very believable that people would declare people with these kinds of magical powers gods.
Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2009, 03:33:37 PM »
In WWII on certain islands in the pacific american soliders were considered gods because of or weapons and planes...the natives didn't get out much :P
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sortitus

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2009, 10:30:12 PM »
Indeed, these groups are called "Cargo Cults". Some still exist, most notably one that believes that Crown Prince Charles is a Jesus figure. It's pretty insane, but it's not like you're going to tell people who believe you're a god that their religion is bollocks. Apparently he fits some prophecy they've had for a while.

There are other examples of people with technology or magic being mistaken for gods, so I don't see that Brandon is drawing from his religion entirely. Even becoming a god is an old story. Look at Hercules.
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Patriotic Kaz

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 12:53:02 AM »
Malazan books of the fallen have several people ascending to godhood
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

Curious

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 02:09:05 AM »
Something else I noticed was that when characters undergo major character development, Brandon always has them thinking, "Am I that old person I used to be?" like how Vin used to be a street urchin, or how Vivenna used to be a princess. Then they think, "Or am I the person I've become?" the way Vin became a noblelady, and the way Vivenna became a street urchin. They finally decide that they're someone else, a mix of the two.

What I'm wondering is, would people in real life ask themselves these questions? It feels a bit clichéd and weird, but it also feels a bit realistic. I wonder if he's every going to switch up how people decide how to define what they are.

AllWrong

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 07:25:22 AM »
I, personally, have never wondered who I am.  I've never had to "soul search".  I can only imagine what questions I would ask myself if I did.  I've always just taken who I am as who I am.  Only when I reminisce with old friends about the past do I ever even pause to consider who I was.  *shrug* I guess I just assumed those would be the questions people would really ask themsevles if they were ever unsure of themselves enough that they actually had to ask themselves who they were (that's alot of pronouns...).

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 05:36:12 PM »
If you ever have to ask those questions you are probably in trouble...i have had to ask those questions and the immediate answer is often comforting but at the same time you can't discard the past and the scars that go with it... the real answers are generally ugly things and leave you ashamed of much of what you have done
"Words are double edged blades. Only the great and the foolish play with knives." - Kaz the Buddah

"Take off your sandals, for you are posting on holy ground." -  Yahweh Kaz

"Chaos, go to your room!" - Momma Kaz

Aranfan

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2009, 08:45:52 PM »
IIRC, Vin only asked herself those questions after she had tired Gold.  And Viv had just been through a very traumatic experience.

happyman

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Re: Brandon Stereotype Character Relationships
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2009, 08:47:59 PM »
Good stories come from conflict, and conflict tends to change people.  If the change is drastic/traumatic enough, I suspect it leads to some introspection in some kinds of personalities.  Just living a low-conflict life (like most people have most of the time) would not lead to this.
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